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Generative AI is overrated, long live old-school AI

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Re: Generative AI is overrated, long live old-school AI

#111

Post by satvikpendem »

whatshisface wrote: post #93
nico wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, maybe you can use a shell script, but now the AI assistant can write it based on your verbal/text description, and then the assistant can also run it for you after you’ve checked it. What your are saying is: “why use the washing machine, if I my clothes are even cleaner when I wash them myself - I also spend less detergent and less water”. You are free to keep doing your laundry by hand. But I bet most people p…

I think you're fighting an uphill battle because of what you picked to defend here - shell scripts are very easy to write, and I have a hard time imagining a future where someone tells an LLM, "Write me a shell script that runs run_control.py with the speed argument set to one hundred." to get, "./run_control.py --speed 100"

What? There are a lot of non-coders out there, and they could absolutely use an LLM to ask it to create scripts to run. In fact I along with a few of my friends already do this, I recently asked ChatGPT to figure out how to integrate two libraries together after I copy-pasted to docs from each (now with the GPT-4 32k token limit).

Re: Generative AI is overrated, long live old-school AI

#113

Post by sharemywin »

redox99 wrote: post #112

I wonder how good multimodal GPT4 is at ImageNet. (You give it the image and prompt it with the 1000 classes and ask it which one the image belongs to). I'm surprised ClosedAI didn't include this kind of benchmark. I guess it doesn't do too well?

Here's something on Clip

https://www.pinecone.io/learn/zero-shot-image-classification...

Re: Generative AI is overrated, long live old-school AI

#115

Post by sharemywin »

sweezyjeezy wrote: post #77
GuB-42 wrote: post #43

Is there a fundamental difference? I mean, the only thing GPT does is predict the next word, which makes it not so different from a compression algorithm. And diffusion models (the image generating stuff) are essentially fancy denoisers. Depending on how you assemble the big building blocks, you get generation or you get prediction.

Depends how far you take the word 'fundamental', on the one hand yeah most DL systems are trying to predict something, and they generally have some concept of compression built in. But in terms of the steps to curate a dataset, train, test, iterate and actually use the model for a given end goal - they are pretty fundamentally different.

I think the thing is though in Large multi models you give it all the data and test it against everything. And it generally does better across most of the benchmarks.

Re: Generative AI is overrated, long live old-school AI

#116

Post by querez »

version_five wrote: post #48
nico wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me what’s exciting about Chat/GPT type of tech, is that they can be the “coordinators” of other models. Imagine asking an AI assistant to perform a certain industrial control task. The assistant, instead of executing the task “itself”, could figure out which model/system should perform the task and have it do it. Then even monitor the task and check it’s completion.

This is just wrong. Also, even if a LLM could do that, so could a shell script, without the risks involved in using "AI" for it, or for now the ridiculous external dependence that would involve. I wonder if in 10 years people will be stuck debugging Rube-Goldberg machines composed of LLM api calls doing stuff that if-statements can do, probably cobbled together with actual if-statements

It's not wrong. It's how modern systems operate. E.g. look at Google's SayCan (https://say-can.github.io/) which operates exactly like this (an LLM ordering a Robot around).

Re: Generative AI is overrated, long live old-school AI

#117

Post by sharemywin »

arrow7000 wrote: post #95
jedberg wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But from I've seen no one has applied it to the latest Generative AIs.

Maybe an adversarial approach was used in training these models in the first place?

It was they were' trained using reinforcement learning with human feedback to create the critic.

Re: Generative AI is overrated, long live old-school AI

#118

Post by qup »

xwdv wrote: post #71
nico wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, maybe you can use a shell script, but now the AI assistant can write it based on your verbal/text description, and then the assistant can also run it for you after you’ve checked it. What your are saying is: “why use the washing machine, if I my clothes are even cleaner when I wash them myself - I also spend less detergent and less water”. You are free to keep doing your laundry by hand. But I bet most people p…

Spare me the shitty analogies. We write shell scripts because it’s cheap, fast, and the behavior is very predictable. Like it or not, an AI’s behavior is a black box and can’t be “proven” to execute exactly the same every time for the scenarios you are targeting. A shell script will do exactly what it has been written to do every time, unless tampered with. And if changes need to be made, it can be done quickly witho…

> A shell script will do exactly what it has been written to do every time

I wish I lived in that universe.

Re: Generative AI is overrated, long live old-school AI

#119

Post by echelon »

xwdv wrote: post #108
com2kid wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A shell script will do exactly what it has been written to do every time, unless tampered with. Or unless some magic environment variable changes, or one of the runtime dependencies changes, or it is run on a different operating system, or permissions aren't setup right, or one of its tasks errors out. Shell scripts are digital duct tape, the vast majority of shell scripts do not come close to being reliable softwa…

AI proponents are missing the point. Anything you write to make an AI produce something is basically code. Docs are code. You don’t have to feed a developer code or docs, you can give them a high level idea and they’ll figure it out on their own if you want.

That code will eventually fall away.

The big thing everyone in this single thread is missing is that AI is a metaheuristic.

I wouldn't expect to use AI to run_script.py. That's easy. I'd expect it to look at the business signals and do the work of an intern. To look at metrics and adjust some parameters or notify some people. To quickly come up with and prototype novel ways to glue new things together. To solve brand new problems.

Re: Generative AI is overrated, long live old-school AI

#120

Post by tough »

pstorm wrote: post #106
whatshisface wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're fighting an uphill battle because of what you picked to defend here - shell scripts are very easy to write, and I have a hard time imagining a future where someone tells an LLM, "Write me a shell script that runs run_control.py with the speed argument set to one hundred." to get, "./run_control.py --speed 100"

That's a trivial example, sure. Think of saying "make this image more red, flip it vertically, then crop the bottom 25%, and finally output it with 80% compression as a jpg". That would take 15 minutes to figure out how to write that with imagick, or just have an LLM do it for you.

I had to try, seems reasonable, haven't tested the code

As an AI language model, I do not have direct access to image editing software, but I can provide you with a shell script that could achieve the described image manipulation using ImageMagick, assuming it is installed on your system.

Here's an example shell script that you could use as a starting point:

bash Copy code #!/bin/bash

# Set the input image filename input_file="input.jpg"

# Set the output image filename output_file="output.jpg"

# Increase the redness of the image convert "$input_file" -modulate 100,150,100 -channel R -evaluate multiply 1.2 +channel temp1.jpg

# Flip the image vertically convert temp1.jpg -flip temp2.jpg

# Crop the bottom 25% of the image convert temp2.jpg -gravity South -chop 0x25% temp3.jpg

# Compress the image to 80% convert temp3.jpg -quality 80 "$output_file"

# Clean up temporary files rm temp*.jpg To use this script, save it to a file (e.g., "image_manipulation.sh"), make it executable (e.g., "chmod +x image_manipulation.sh"), and run it in the same directory as your input image. The output image will be saved in the same directory with the name "output.jpg".

Please note that this is just an example script and may need to be modified depending on your specific image manipulation needs.

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