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The American Diet Has a Sandwich Problem

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Re: The American Diet Has a Sandwich Problem

#111

Post by kazinator »

"Too much sodium" has been debunked years ago. It's completely unimportant except to some select hypertensive individuals who have a sensitivity to it. Variation in sodium intake has only a very small effect on blood pressure in normal individuals.

I remember reading in Japan's guidelines allow up to 12 grams of salt daily for adult males (4800 mg sodium) who do manual work (i.e. sweat).

The document on this site:

https://www.fao.org/nutrition/education/food-dietary-guideli...

recommends a broad limit of 10 g of salt (4000 mg) per day, claiming that the average consumption in Japan is 12.7 g (based on some pretty dated 1998 study). (Unfortunately, the document pays lip service to the same misconceptions: too much salt causes high blood pressure---and stomach cancer, to boot.) The recommendation is still way above the USDA's crazy figure of 2300 mg.

Anyway, pick a country that isn't generally stupid/corrupt about food and health, and use their recommendations.

Re: The American Diet Has a Sandwich Problem

#112

Post by frumper »

connicpu wrote: post #106
justinator wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you are a critical heart patient, salt then can matter a lot. Unfortunately a lot of people suffer from being per-diabetic, which really just means, "you have diabetes, we don't want to say that because: denial" and a lot of guidelines used for "healthy" people don't apply to you, because you're not healthy.

Well there is one aspect where pre-diabetes differs from being fully diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes, and that's the fact that you're not at the point of no return. Pre-diabetics, if they make appropriate lifestyle changes, still have a chance at reversing course and not living with diabetes for the rest of their life.

Another aspect that differs is that pre-diabetics bodies are still functioning. They are closer to not being able to keep up, but if they couldn't, then they'd be diabetic.

Re: The American Diet Has a Sandwich Problem

#113

Post by frumper »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #97
rjh29 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you find wholegrain bread is more filling / less sleep-inducing than white? I don't find there to be a huge difference personally, especially compared to just reducing how much bread I eat. (Same with rice) Jarlsberg is delicious!

Absolutely. White bread spikes your blood sugar much faster because it's almost pure starch. The resulting drop can definitely be sleep inducing in my experience. Whole grain bread also has a lot more protein, which is also more filling. But can also be more sleep inducing. The topic of post-prandial somnolence is a complicated one indeed. All sorts of hormonal, blood sugar, psychoactives in some foods, factors invol…

Californian, Jarlsberg is more expensive than the cheapest cheddars, but nothing that prices you out of buying it if you like it.

Re: The American Diet Has a Sandwich Problem

#114

Post by tsimionescu »

lamontcg wrote: post #110
tsimionescu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Carbs are terrible for diets, don't satiate you and most people eat too many. I think most people's experience is precisely the opposite with regards too satiety - non-sugary carbs are the most important component for satiety. Bread, rice, potatoes - these are all commonly eaten to increase the feeling of fullness.

> Bread, rice, potatoes - these are all commonly eaten to increase the feeling of fullness. And then 2 hours later you're hungry again and craving the sugar hit you got from your last meal.

There's no sugar in rice or potatoes or most non-American breads.

Re: The American Diet Has a Sandwich Problem

#115

Post by anthonypasq »

rjh29 wrote: post #87
anthonypasq wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? They are made out of the exact same stuff. 2 slices of wonder bread has 140 calories.

Yeah but the majority of bread is NOT 140 calories. In the UK there is literally one loaf of bread that small because they shrunk the size down and added air to it.

who knew that larger volumes of bread have more calories than smaller volumes. What the hell is your point even?

flour tortillas are bread. They are nutritionally equivalent.

Re: The American Diet Has a Sandwich Problem

#116

Post by tsimionescu »

rjh29 wrote: post #68
tsimionescu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Carbs are terrible for diets, don't satiate you and most people eat too many. I think most people's experience is precisely the opposite with regards too satiety - non-sugary carbs are the most important component for satiety. Bread, rice, potatoes - these are all commonly eaten to increase the feeling of fullness.

I've done keto and been satiated on zero carbs, and when dieting I simply cut down on bread and remove potatoes/rice from my meals entirely and I have not noticed any real difference. If I eat a ton of vegetables (particularly broccoli, cauliflower, sprouts, kale etc.) and some chicken breast, I find it to be very filling indeed. Other people have said I am demonising carbs, perhaps there is a middle ground (somethin…

The thing is, people tend to overly generalize. What is satiating to you may well not be satiating to someone else.

For myself, I can fill up with tons of protein and vegetables, and still feel the need for some more food a few hours later as the stomach has processed some of the water out and made some room. Conversely, if I eat some non-sugary carbs I much more easily feel full and can stop eating till the next day - which is how I lost about 30kg.

Re: The American Diet Has a Sandwich Problem

#117

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

frumper wrote: post #113
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. White bread spikes your blood sugar much faster because it's almost pure starch. The resulting drop can definitely be sleep inducing in my experience. Whole grain bread also has a lot more protein, which is also more filling. But can also be more sleep inducing. The topic of post-prandial somnolence is a complicated one indeed. All sorts of hormonal, blood sugar, psychoactives in some foods, factors invol…

Californian, Jarlsberg is more expensive than the cheapest cheddars, but nothing that prices you out of buying it if you like it.

Good, that's how it should be!

Re: The American Diet Has a Sandwich Problem

#118

Post by justinator »

frumper wrote: post #112
connicpu wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there is one aspect where pre-diabetes differs from being fully diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes, and that's the fact that you're not at the point of no return. Pre-diabetics, if they make appropriate lifestyle changes, still have a chance at reversing course and not living with diabetes for the rest of their life.

Another aspect that differs is that pre-diabetics bodies are still functioning. They are closer to not being able to keep up, but if they couldn't, then they'd be diabetic.

True, but being tested correctly as "pre-diabetic" isn't so straightforward, as getting sugar/glucose levels at rest doesn't tell the whole story - ie: there's no such thing as having a mild case of diabetes.

Take this with a grain of... of salt,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zZBiTfIp4Q

I think he makes a good point that the proper tests for diabetes is much more involved than what most people get prescribed, or what they will tolerate, as it can take the entire day. (he says a lot more - I'm not standing by everything he's saying)

Easy access to almost over the counter and cheap continual glucose monitors may reveal better patterns to catch pre-diabetic symptoms faster (my hope).

Re: The American Diet Has a Sandwich Problem

#119

Post by lamontcg »

tsimionescu wrote: post #114
lamontcg wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bread, rice, potatoes - these are all commonly eaten to increase the feeling of fullness. And then 2 hours later you're hungry again and craving the sugar hit you got from your last meal.

There's no sugar in rice or potatoes or most non-American breads.

what do simple carbs (ex-fiber) turn into after you eat them?

Re: The American Diet Has a Sandwich Problem

#120

Post by votepaunchy »

RandallBrown wrote: post #11

> Sandwiches are the number one source of sodium and saturated fat in Americans’ diets, making up about one-fifth of our daily sodium intake and 19% of our daily saturated fat calories 20% of sodium and saturated fat calories for a single meal doesn't really sound very alarming.

What fraction of meals are sandwiches? Not everyone is eating a sandwich every day.
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