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New F-Droid repository format for faster and smaller updates

f-droid.org

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Re: New F-Droid repository format for faster and smaller updates

#111

Post by iudqnolq »

geokon wrote: post #8

I didn't realize the app was still being worked on. It's been years since the UI update and it's always been amazingly buggy (across 3 different phone). I'm always impressed by how broken it is - especially if you have a slow connection. Downloads will randomly go into a weird frozen state where they can't be stopped. The download status will change when you change tabs/sections. Sometimes download will go past 100%…

For years clicking the install link in the notification errored, but they fixed it a few months ago. There is progress.

Re: New F-Droid repository format for faster and smaller updates

#112

Post by iudqnolq »

rollcat wrote: post #96
orra wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I was reading recently, NeoStore is also the F-Droid client which supports automatic upgrades on Android 12, without root.

The lack of automatic updates/upgrades in F-Droid is what keeps putting me off. I completely understand people who want more control over when and which apps get the updates, but this is not a good policy for the general case: I trust the developers of the apps I install from F-Droid to provide me with security, stability and performance updates much more than I distrust them to pull the rug from under my feet. I als…

That's an Android restriction, you need root to allow non-play-services to install apps.

Re: New F-Droid repository format for faster and smaller updates

#113

Post by dspillett »

franky47 wrote: post #109
dspillett wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they are using the hash output for quick corruption tests as well as signing for authenticity? And if they are computing a hash for that anyway, the computation saving from signing the hash not the whole content might be worthwhile?

Adding a pre-hash is the overhead here, because of the internal hash. Granted, verifying only that hashes match for integrity would be cheaper than checking the signature. But since you need to to that anyway for authenticating the payload, why the intermediate step?

> Adding a pre-hash is the overhead here, because of the internal hash.

If it has no other purpose, then yes but only a small amount of overhead if the content is large because the internal hash is over a much smaller content. You have:

hash(bits) then hash(bits) & sign(bits)*

instead of

hash(bits) & hash(bits)

The bit you save, the hash(bits), is only significant if the input content is of similar size and you are performing the operation many times in quick succession.

> since you need to to that anyway for authenticating the payload

That is true from the client PoV. Server-side you might want to integrity check your data as part of regular proactive maintenance.

Of course I'm assuming here that the digest is stored so it can be used in this way – if not then I agree it is just overhead.

Re: New F-Droid repository format for faster and smaller updates

#114

Post by llanowarelves »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #102
hydroid7 wrote: post #80

Thank you f-droid for having a consistent UI since years.

Consistency is good. But I find the update flow to be annoying. Touch 'updates' tab, doesn't show you the updates until you pull down (with no affordance), update are summarised but not listed in the big space for updates to be listed, "update all" then doesn't update all but instead lists the updates in that big space, tap "update" on each item listed, you get a popup asking if you want to update it (because the two…

Not being able to update multiple at once is an android security thing isn't it?

Re: New F-Droid repository format for faster and smaller updates

#115

Post by rollcat »

iudqnolq wrote: post #112
rollcat wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of automatic updates/upgrades in F-Droid is what keeps putting me off. I completely understand people who want more control over when and which apps get the updates, but this is not a good policy for the general case: I trust the developers of the apps I install from F-Droid to provide me with security, stability and performance updates much more than I distrust them to pull the rug from under my feet. I als…

That's an Android restriction, you need root to allow non-play-services to install apps.

Oh.

I haven't rooted an Android device since 2014.

I just did some lazy research for the version of LineageOS I'm using. Am I missing something, or is it normal to find the procedure confusing and somewhat scary? There is github.com/LineageOS/Superuser and github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk, it seems I need to build Superuser from source (yikes); Magisk from F-Droid wants to install a newer version from Github (but that doesn't work); the version that works wants to patch a ROM file, which I don't know where to get from... The app lists changelogs rather than instructions.

I understand it's partly the fault of Android's security architecture, but I wish it was actually manageable for normal people.

Re: New F-Droid repository format for faster and smaller updates

#116

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

geokon wrote: post #8

I didn't realize the app was still being worked on. It's been years since the UI update and it's always been amazingly buggy (across 3 different phone). I'm always impressed by how broken it is - especially if you have a slow connection. Downloads will randomly go into a weird frozen state where they can't be stopped. The download status will change when you change tabs/sections. Sometimes download will go past 100%…

Do you have F-Droid privilege escalation patch? Preferably built-in as part of the ROM e.g. LineageOS+microG version[1].

App install + bg updates have been an non-issue to me[1].

[1] https://lineage.microg.org/

Re: New F-Droid repository format for faster and smaller updates

#117

Post by onli »

rollcat wrote: post #115
iudqnolq wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an Android restriction, you need root to allow non-play-services to install apps.

Oh. I haven't rooted an Android device since 2014. I just did some lazy research for the version of LineageOS I'm using. Am I missing something, or is it normal to find the procedure confusing and somewhat scary? There is github.com/LineageOS/Superuser and github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk, it seems I need to build Superuser from source (yikes); Magisk from F-Droid wants to install a newer version from Github (but that doe…

This seems to be partly a Lineage problem - with probably some Android culpability mixed in. Lineage had their own very simple to install superuser addon, but that was dropped a few versions ago. Some Android changes prompted this, but probably also their attitude against rocking the boat (no rooting, no signature spoofing, etc).

The remaining solution was Magisk. Magisk was equally easy to install, but recently deprecated that easy install method so that only patching the ROM file remains (you get that file from the ROM you run, unpack the archive, if you are unlucky you need to unpack a second payload.bin file, https://wiki.lineageos.org/extracting_blobs_from_zips#extrac...). But not only is that more complicated, it also does not persist after a Lineage upgrade, which happens every week, see https://github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk/issues/3820#issuecomment.... Totally crazy for a project not in early alpha.

I want root to properly manage my battery via https://github.com/VR-25/acc ( with ideally https://github.com/MatteCarra/AccA as Magisk module). How ridiculously complicated that is now and that the install procedure is broken without them documenting it soured me quite a bit on Magisk, but I also start to develop some bad feelings about Lineage - because it is them that would be in the best position to provide a simple root solution. But they just refuse it, and even forbid discussing such topics on their subreddit - that alone shows me that the project is very user hostile currently. I doubt with that attitude they can make a turnaround, but I'd be happy to be wrong...

Sadly the other bigger ROMs are to my knowledge not better in this category, neither /e/ with their service suite, nor DivestOS with the passionate developer nor CalyxOS or GrapheneOS with their "security" focus are interested in giving the user full access to their device. Android seems to be a dead end here, real Linux is needed.

Re: New F-Droid repository format for faster and smaller updates

#118

Post by urgent_skittle »

onli wrote: post #117
rollcat wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh. I haven't rooted an Android device since 2014. I just did some lazy research for the version of LineageOS I'm using. Am I missing something, or is it normal to find the procedure confusing and somewhat scary? There is github.com/LineageOS/Superuser and github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk, it seems I need to build Superuser from source (yikes); Magisk from F-Droid wants to install a newer version from Github (but that doe…

This seems to be partly a Lineage problem - with probably some Android culpability mixed in. Lineage had their own very simple to install superuser addon, but that was dropped a few versions ago. Some Android changes prompted this, but probably also their attitude against rocking the boat (no rooting, no signature spoofing, etc). The remaining solution was Magisk. Magisk was equally easy to install, but recently depr…

You make it sound harder than it is. Most (if not all) ROMs offer the boot image as a separate dowload, often referred to as the "recovery"; LineageOS is one of them. You only need to patch and flash it once, after that you can just open Magisk after the OTA update has been installed but before rebooting, and choose the "after OTA update" install option.

Re: New F-Droid repository format for faster and smaller updates

#119

Post by urgent_skittle »

stinos wrote: post #62
geokon wrote: post #8

I didn't realize the app was still being worked on. It's been years since the UI update and it's always been amazingly buggy (across 3 different phone). I'm always impressed by how broken it is - especially if you have a slow connection. Downloads will randomly go into a weird frozen state where they can't be stopped. The download status will change when you change tabs/sections. Sometimes download will go past 100%…

I hear you on the bugs, but my main problem with it is that the search just never seems to return what I need. I don't know if it's me but I usually end up searching the internet for 'best foss android ' or so. Let's see: search for ssh (with the intent of finding an ssh client, that's not too far fetched?), these are the top matches: HACS Hackspace Access Control System, KOReader Ebook reader, AVNC VNC client, FTPCl…

Sounds very familiar. I switched to Foxy Droid, an alternative F-Droid client, years ago partly because its search functionality is miles ahead of the official F-Droid app. The popular and newer Droid-ify and Neo Store are forks of it I think, so should offer the same improvements.

Top results for 'ssh' in Foxy Droid: ConnectBot (SSH client), SshDaemon (ssh server), RSSAid (RSSHub... nothing to do with SSH), Easy SSHFS (Sshfs with ssh client), Trigger (open doors via SSH), FiSSH (SSH authentication via fingerprint), TeamBot (SSH client), SimpleSSHD (SSH server), etc.

Re: New F-Droid repository format for faster and smaller updates

#120

Post by hilbert42 »

mcsniff wrote: post #110
hilbert42 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...It's been years since the UI update and it's always been amazingly buggy" Being buggy is only one aspect, the other was the annoying change of UI that presents apps in rows of large, gawky icons instead of the previous efficient rows of title text each headed by a small icon (as say in Windows 'List' mode). Unfortunately, this leaves me stuck on ancient version F-Droid 0.102.3. When looking for an app this new la…

I quite like Droid-ify as a better front end for F-Droid, I don't even bother downloading the main client anymore. https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.looker.droidify/

Thanks, I'm now inundated with F-Droid client alternatives.

When so many other clients have sprung up in response to F-Droid's painfully awkward UI one would reckon they'd rethink the change. This is yet another another instance of where developers think that they know best or where they impose their own personal preferences on users but get it completely wrong.

I note that it's not just the number of newly-available clients that have solidified my view, I was very surprised by the number of upvotes I received to my post. Seems many of us think alike.

F-Droid people please take note.

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