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Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

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Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#111
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole management heavy culture needs to F off. 9/10 people who wants to be a manager are awful as software engineers and they know this is the only way they can stay in the game. Out of those who do become engineering managers it seems all they do is talk a bunch of nonsense and add tremendous levels of roadblocks because they suck at understanding the actual technical problems and I’ll be honest. They’re usuall…

Aren't you just replacing the word manager with the word "team lead"? What in your view is the difference between the responsibilities of a manager vs a team lead if the team still reports to the team lead?

In my mind the team lead wouldn’t have reports. The whole team is responsible for carrying out the business objective, and the team lead is the best IC on the team to guide the other ICs to the end.

the director level (it could be multiple people) receive leadership objectives for the quarter or year. Their only job is to take their resources/battalion and divvy the work up into small atomic fire teams. Obviously there are many players from UX product QA devops etc. There is a directive, and everyone needs to be on board to WORK.

The team lead is in charge of ensuring the eng work gets done. There might be product or other folks, they’re specialists on the team like a marksman or medic or automatic weapons specialist. This is a tech company we are taking about, the output is a product backed by technology.

They need to be strong technically and take their team to the finish line. They don’t need to waste their time with 1:1 where they can’t remember the last session or making up stupid stories and wasting time in meetings. Just do the work. The team lead is the best engineer on the team and the rest of the team just does their job.

Maybe incentive structure could be set up where the entire team is rewarded for completion. If people don’t feel it’s fair they can leave, but when things work out the reward would be 100s of thousands of dollars for everyone. If you just need bodies to throw at some low hanging problem outsource that work. Otherwise focus on execution.

Like imagine trying to take a building with many doors and floors from an enemy. You want each team nimble enough to move independently of each other while working together via the team leads talking to each other. They lead their teams towards their objective of taking the building.

Engineering managers would just be dead weight. They’re not in the building and don’t have line of sight. They are far away (rarely have I seen eng managers code or get their hands dirty) and because of this cause confusion and disarray. They get information that gets lost in translation or some hero noob on the team wants to try their own plan and the manager gives them time to try it out. Good luck taking that building.

Just keep the work lean, and keep focused on work.

Like so many managers allow their teams to waste time and effort with “finding the right process” or bullshit meetings. Just focus on taking that building.

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#112
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the Metaverse something that wants to be done and Meta is its birth helper OR is Meta inventing the Metaverse because it needs something immensely big for its business strategy? My feeling is that Meta is rather running away from a failing business and less running towards a new green meadow.

i really feel like metaverse is only a dream to people with extreme social anxiety. Which may represent a large share of software developers, but only a minority of the general population.

I think it may be popular among kids too - look at Roblox, Fortnite etc.

But for adults.. well after staring at a screen all day the last thing I want to do is stare at another screen, I'd rather lift weights or play guitar or whatever.

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#113

I would not invest in Meta's metaverse future. It feels like Windows Mobile. Meta has the early start, money, captive audience and enthusiasm, but they don't have the hardware/software edge (that Apple coincidentally also has this time around) to really make the idea work. The headsets are not going to revolutionize much running Facebook games on budget Qualcomm SoCs, and Facebook cant buy an Unreal Engine or an M2 P…

While I agree Meta probably won't make it on the metaverse side, I disagree with your reasoning.

Famously, Facebook "missed mobile" (were focused on the web) and had to scramble to recover, which they did very well. I see the metaverse efforts as a way to avoid that happening to them again. Which is smart. The point is not to make any money on the hardware; the point is to understand the metaverse so well that when it eventually emerges they will know it better than anyone else and can dominate rather than be squeezed out.

In other words, under this model, Apple's release of some excellent headset would help meta, not threaten it.

All that being said I don't think Meta will succeed. The biggest problem is bootstrap: headsets are clunky and nobody wants to wear them for long, if at all. Because it's early days everybody needs to provide transitional interfaces, but by doing so you are working against learning / predicting what will really happen (remember all those virtual worlds in the early days of the web where you would supposedly move around in a virtual mall? Nobody wants that; they want to jump straight from gap.com to Merrils.com (or in HN case from VScode to Stack Overflow and back), or visit them side-by-side. But the company's efforts are still "me too" like demos from others years ago. They haven't managed to move the state of the art; and if they had would people have booed it too? Probably.

Also, decent, non-enthusiast hardware is so far away that it will be difficult for Meta to maintain focus. It should have been a skunkworks project, or at least a side effort, not something as prominent as it has been.

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#114
post #95
post #55

It's interesting how Facebook's target audience is nearing retirement age, but Meta is going full steam ahead with futuristic VR headset technology. It seems like a real clash of ideas, but I could see this working out well to connect people especially older people who are retired, similar to the Black Mirror episode San Junipero (a surprisingly optimistic and happy episode). The problem is Meta's headsets have a ver…

Meta has a huge global teenage user base with Instagram and WhatsApp. TikTok complements them rather than replacing. All three are growing. I don’t know how they’re going to translate that reach to VR profits either, but focusing on Facebook-using retirees misses the big picture of Meta’s growth.

I don't see teenagers using Instagram much or at all where I live.

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#115
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both this hiring-like-there-is-no-tomorrow and, a few short months later, layoffs "because the economy has changed" indicate lack of any sanity in business planning. Sure, most of these people will probably eventually find other jobs, but the randomness of these ups and downs in presumably mature companies is pretty disturbing.

My more pessimistic take is that this style of business planning is actually planned , in that companies knew what they were doing was risky but knew they could just layoff people, as they have readily done. It is a plain as day showcase of companies treating employees as their greatest costs and liabilities rather than assets.

But in what demented mind do you temporarily hire tens of thousands of extremely expensive and highly skilled workers (to do what?) and then wipe out all those projects in a year?

Even if you treat people as completely disposable garbage, it doesn't even make any sense in terms of projects, to urgently come up with projects for 10k+ people then urgently cancel them. Again, these are decades-old, established, money-making companies.

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m ESL and the context of my comment is management and my opinion on what company should do. Get rid of engineering managers. And yes. Fire all the management who caused shit to get that bad. I 100% stand by that.

Fire the management who caused shit to go bad != fire everyone. If you actually are sincere about fixing things, actually finding the causes is very important.

How do you fix a broken pipe that’s already had a dozen patches on it? Keep adding more and it stays broken?

At some point you have to just rip it out and put a new one in.

I’m personally fine just leaving and getting a new job if things get wack. Unless I can get to senior leadership level I can’t do much when the culture is already so ingrained. That’s why you need an Elon or someone like that with guts to just come in and fire people.

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#117
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve quit jobs before over awful managers. Nobody hurt me because for me at least, I’ve gotten every job I’ve applied to. For example I got bored of my last company and my manager, applied to four companies and got each job, then just picked the one that paid most. I don’t like dealing with incompetent people. It’s that simple. I’m not a bottom feeder lmao.

Congrats, everyone wants you and throw boat loads of money to get you. You're also the only competent person in a sea of incompetence. What would the world do without you?

[deleted]

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#118

I find that my FB feed is roughly 50% ads. Sometimes there are two, or even three ads in a row. I barely use it anymore (and I've literally never clicked on an ad). I wonder why FB thinks people will use their product when it is half advertisements. People watch 21 mins of TV with 9 mins of commercials, and they would revolt if it were 15/15.

Its not that I don't believe your general point but I would be interested in evidence that you're getting more than 1 in a row.

I am $50MM+/year spender on Meta ads and while I know that ad load is up I don't think its up that much where ads run alongside each other.

If you can show me evidence of this I will make a big fucking deal of this to Meta.

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#119
post #101

So one thing I was curious about is those who were laying off (at least the big 4) have xyz billions in the bank. If there is truly fat then it can be trimmed by either flattening the org, cutting down pay, changing work hours etc (nobody works just 40 hrs anymore). So the layoffs seem clearly for paying homage to wall st. What would happen if one of these CEOs grew a pair and held off and directed the fat to muscle?…

yep when you have billions in the bank, firing good staff is tantamount to an admission either that you have literally no good ideas for how to grow the business or that you have a 100% short term view. In either case it ought to be a humliating admission for the leadership of a tech company to make to its investors.

> it ought to be a humliating admission for the leadership of a tech company to make to its investors.

They usually "take full responsibility and the heavy burden" of doing the layoffs. It's like they are the ones suffering more. It's heart breaking.

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#120
post #80

I would not invest in Meta's metaverse future. It feels like Windows Mobile. Meta has the early start, money, captive audience and enthusiasm, but they don't have the hardware/software edge (that Apple coincidentally also has this time around) to really make the idea work. The headsets are not going to revolutionize much running Facebook games on budget Qualcomm SoCs, and Facebook cant buy an Unreal Engine or an M2 P…

They don't have the enthusiasm I don't think, and I believe that is where it falls flat. The technology is not currently something that everyone wants and definitely not something everyone needs. VR is not good at general computing yet, and the form factor and way you engage with it means people won't be using it in the same way they use TVs, game consoles or smart phones. Mass adoption takes apealing to the lowest c…

VR isn't good at general computing because noone has really embraced the form factor and given it the attention it needs. The issue is, meta is not doing that. Hopefully the upcoming apple ar/XR/vr stuff will be a bit better.

The oculus go failed terribly, because no-one made content for it. Microsoft's attempt at arm laptops failed, because no-one made applications for it. Apple was able to convince people it was worth considering arm, maybe they can get people to consider vr?

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