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Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

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Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#111

Post by moremetadata »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

>we could start the world's largest software co-op

How would non-compete, confidentially clause contracts when when you work for yourself? Would the judiciary in that part of the world uphold them or strike them out like the judiciary of other parts of the world have done.

Tip, if you are female and married a rich bloke, move to the UK, prove your British citizenship and then get divorced in UK law courts!

Amber Heard knew the British law courts are biased against men!

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#112

Post by andrewmutz »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

> We all know what products companies/individuals would pay for, because we used to build/buy them.

I disagree. Knowing what to build is the hardest part of the tech industry. It's why the industry funds a constant stream of failing startups: it's the trial and error process of finding out what the world actually needs built.

Worker coops will work great for the successful products, but most are failures. Who pays for those?

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#113

Post by whatshisface »

marcusverus wrote: post #101
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

It's hard to imagine such an organization working out over the long term. The incentives are all wonky! The more you contribute, the more you sacrifice by joining a coop. The less you contribute, the more you gain. I for one can't think of a less attractive idea than taking a product idea that I love and turning ownership and creative control over to a group of strangers. And that's probably why these things are so r…

>The more you contribute, the more you sacrifice by joining a coop. The less you contribute, the more you gain.

How do you think co-ops work? Are you imagining a flat organizational structure like Valve Software? An open source project plus invoices? Those are all interesting ideas, but co-ops presently work like employee-owned business and usually have managers and compensation structures that fit the obvious way those things work. HN's tendency to GPT whenever exposed to something it doesn't know about is driving me nuts today. :-)

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#114

Post by whatshisface »

moremetadata wrote: post #111
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

>we could start the world's largest software co-op How would non-compete, confidentially clause contracts when when you work for yourself? Would the judiciary in that part of the world uphold them or strike them out like the judiciary of other parts of the world have done. Tip, if you are female and married a rich bloke, move to the UK, prove your British citizenship and then get divorced in UK law courts! Amber Hear…

>How would non-compete, confidentially clause contracts when when you work for yourself?

You sign them with the co-op as the other party, same as any other business.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#115

Post by twblalock »

aaomidi wrote: post #103
twblalock wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, show me a single example of this model working for a software business that makes a profit. Just one. I honestly can't find any.

Companies in new areas of technology generally started with a concentration of power and after a while that concentration of power goes away. Every new tech has effectively had this. Anyway our economic model is toxic to cooperative businesses. So yeah it’s gonna be hard to find examples of successful coops.

> Anyway our economic model is toxic to cooperative businesses.

I don't really buy that.

Our economic model rewards businesses that make money. In tech, you don't even need to make a profit, just having a lot of revenue is enough to get a ton of investment (although that might be changing, and that change is probably good).

If a software co-op could succeed as a business, why hasn't that happened?

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#117

Post by robswc »

whatshisface wrote: post #104
robswc wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you achieve similar comp in the system OP describes?

I didn't think the OP described a comp structure. The org-wide decisions being put to a vote already happens in a lot of public companies, and it would be the employees voting if they were the shareholders. It's a really straightforward idea.

Well, I know there's more to life than comp but when it comes to deciding what to do for work, its a huge factor. I'm just wondering how you would get a similar comp in OPs system.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#118

Post by landhar »

twblalock wrote: post #97
whatshisface wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A co-op can mean a lot of things, but in particular it means an employee-owned business. For all of the reasons not to get behind the idea of a company without a billionaire at the top, the Hobbesian faith in the monarch could be the worst one. The functional difference between a co-op and a normal business could be as small as having a board that is informed (because the shareholders are employees and naturally very…

Ok, show me a single example of this model working for a software business that makes a profit. Just one. I honestly can't find any.

Not parent and not arguing that this model is common by any means. But a noteable example is Motion Twin [0]: a game company that had a couple of mainstream hits (most recently Dead Cells).

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Twin

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#119

Post by 2devnull »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

Wow, you just invented open source software.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#120

Post by whatshisface »

andrewmutz wrote: post #112
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

> We all know what products companies/individuals would pay for, because we used to build/buy them. I disagree. Knowing what to build is the hardest part of the tech industry. It's why the industry funds a constant stream of failing startups: it's the trial and error process of finding out what the world actually needs built. Worker coops will work great for the successful products, but most are failures. Who pays fo…

>Worker coops will work great for the successful products, but most are failures. Who pays for those?

The people who invested to start them. A co-op is just when the stakeholders get together to buy something (shares in the startup, in this case) instead of having a handful of not-so-informed and partially disinterested investors provide liquidity.

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