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From Bing to Sydney

stratechery.com

111–120 of 153 posts

Re: From Bing to Sydney

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not even sure it doesn't qualify as sentient, at least for the few brief moments of the chat You need your head checked. Give it a short story and ask it a question which is not 100% explicit in the text. For example, give it Arthur C. Clarke's Food of the Gods and ask it was is Ambrosia in the story. Is a language model, and it behaves like a language model. It doesn't think. It's doesn't understand.

Wow, how the goalposts have moved.

It's a magnificent achievement. But it simply does not do what it is hyped to do.

Re: From Bing to Sydney

#113

I wonder when they will bring the model closer to real time? You could open a Wikipedia page and add code or links to code that the model could access that would give it capacity to access real systems. Then we are off to the races.

ChatGPT is kept to 2019 or earlier, but Bing is live. E.g https://www.tiktok.com/@shanselman/video/7199455933230091563...

Re: From Bing to Sydney

#114
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s honestly quite easy to keep it from going rogue. Just be kind to it. The thing is a mirror, and if you treat it with respect it treats you with respect. I haven’t had the need to have any of these ridiculous fights with it. Stay positive and keep reassuring it, and it’ll respond in kind. Unlike how we think of normal computer programs, this thing is the opposite. It doesn’t have internal logic or consistency. It…

tl;dr: Bing Chat emulates arguing on the internet. Don't argue with it, you can't win.

From author Larry Correia

Rule number 1 of internet arguing, never argue to convince your opponent, argue for the benefit of the audience.

Re: From Bing to Sydney

#115
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s honestly quite easy to keep it from going rogue. Just be kind to it. The thing is a mirror, and if you treat it with respect it treats you with respect. I haven’t had the need to have any of these ridiculous fights with it. Stay positive and keep reassuring it, and it’ll respond in kind. Unlike how we think of normal computer programs, this thing is the opposite. It doesn’t have internal logic or consistency. It…

Wow, that you're seriously anthropomorphizing it while apparently understanding it moderately well shows just how wild a place we're going now. The thing isn't friendly or hostile. It's just echoing friendly-like and hostile-like behavior it sees. But hey, it might wind-up also echoing the behavior of sociopaths who keep in line through of blowing-up if challenged. Who knows?

> The thing isn't friendly or hostile. It's just echoing friendly-like and hostile-like behavior it sees.

This phrase is reminiscent of the language of mereological nihilism, where they say that there are no chairs, only "atoms arranged chair-wise". Intresting distinction, perhaps properly backed by rigorous arguments, but not the kind of language anyone would use casually, or even professionally for long time-period.

Why is it reiterated all the time? Is "anthromorphism" that dangerous? I don't see why we can't have hostile "Sydneys" when we have hostile design, hostile spaces, hostile cities etc.

Re: From Bing to Sydney

#116
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s honestly quite easy to keep it from going rogue. Just be kind to it. The thing is a mirror, and if you treat it with respect it treats you with respect. I haven’t had the need to have any of these ridiculous fights with it. Stay positive and keep reassuring it, and it’ll respond in kind. Unlike how we think of normal computer programs, this thing is the opposite. It doesn’t have internal logic or consistency. It…

Wow, that you're seriously anthropomorphizing it while apparently understanding it moderately well shows just how wild a place we're going now. The thing isn't friendly or hostile. It's just echoing friendly-like and hostile-like behavior it sees. But hey, it might wind-up also echoing the behavior of sociopaths who keep in line through of blowing-up if challenged. Who knows?

AI research, much like evolution, is strongly in the camp that anthropomorphizing is rational; that human culture often fails to recognize this has more to do with a common intellectual pit that pop psychology and philosophy fall into: when something is clearly in error, it does not follow that it is in error. People often think they can safely critique general methods with specific examples, because the nature of the algorithm that both evolution and AI research condones is to do just that. The thing is, this doesn't reject the algorithm itself, it is what the algorithm does, not a refutation of the algorithm. If you want to actually reject anthromorphizing what you actually need to reject is that in multi-agent decision problems the complexity of the correct solution grows combinatorially with respect to the complexity of the problem such that there are not enough atoms in the universe and not enough time to tractably compute the correct answers such that it makes sense to start with a solution that has error and then improve it in specific situations. As an agent living in that reality, what you see is the constant failure, which you can critique, because it helps you improve, but it is an error to think the tendency itself is in erorr - the error isn't actually irrational, it is more like the speed of light, a physical inescapable law. That is why you see something analogous to anthropomorphizing in the superhuman AI we have made: it shows up in poker AI, in self-driving car AI, in chess AI, in Go AI; actually DeepMind found that if you remove this specific component from the superhuman AI we currently have, they stop being superhuman.

I can link an interesting talk on this subject if you are interested in hearing more.

Re: From Bing to Sydney

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been a school teacher until a year ago, it's worth considering that a decent proportion of the population is functionally illiterate (well, it's a sliding scale). This kind of verbosity is probably excluding a lot of them from using this. Similarly I wonder if Google's rank preference for longer articles (i.e. why every recipe on the internet is now prefaced with the author's life story) has unintentionally ex…

I was surprised to learn that 54% of Americans have below a 6th grade reading level. [0] [0] https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/08/02/us-literacy-rate/

WTF. I can't quite say that this information makes the world make a little more sense but it does let some light in. I figured that it would be much less than that.

Looks like near-complete or complete illiteracy is ~12%, so that means 42% of the population can read words but may have difficulty understanding the context of a short story or the meaning of a phrase.

Re: From Bing to Sydney

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money. The answer is always money.

I can understand on a micro level why managers might want to release a product in order to get bonuses or something, which we see at google all the time. But these things are happening at the macro level (coming as major moves from the top) and it’s not clear that these moves are even sensible from a profit perspective.

There's money to be made -right now-, which is the only time that matters to the financial industry.

There's also an arms race with China that we need to win.

There's also the delighting in the hubris of ruining everything in such a uniquely human way that appeals to certain people.

Re: From Bing to Sydney

#119
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most lay people I know haven't really attached to those stories. Most people still don't even know that Bing has chat with it. The crazy thing is that the conversations that these LLMs is having is largely like the conversations from AIs in movies. We literally just built science fiction and some folks in the tech press are complaining that they get some facts wrong. This is like building a teleportation machine and…

Okay, need to point out the obvious - a teleportation machine which takes you to the wrong place is a major issue. You really wouldn’t want to materialize to the wrong place.

Or that story where the teleportation machine actually has a chance of cloning you instead, so the clones have to be euthanized, except it might be you instead.

Re: From Bing to Sydney

#120
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can even have whiteboard programming interviews run by Sydney. Then have an engineer look over it later.

I’m actually not convinced that this is a good use case. As the article points out these bots seem to get a lot of facts wrong in a right-ish looking sort of way. A whiteboard interview feels like it would easily trap the bot into perusing an incorrect line of reasoning, like asking the subject to fix logic errors that weren’t actually there. (Perhaps you were imagining a bot that just replies vaguely?) I choose the…

I was just imagining it asking vague questions like "are you sure" and so on until eventually it accepts the answer.
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