What chemicals were being transported on the train
Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment
111–120 of 136 posts
Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not just vinyl chloride in the air. It's hydrogen chloride and phosgene, because they decided to set the vinyl chloride on fire to get rid of it. Phosgene was a chemical weapon in WW1 and was especially problematic because, drumroll please, it's heavier than air and doesn't dissipate readily. That's one reason they roundabout mention checking air in people's homes. Air readings could be manipulated simply by tak…
Or the readings could be the usual EPA PM2.5, CO, NOx, and ozone concentrations, and phosgene, vinyl chloride, and HCl are none of the above. (Although a cheap VOC sensor could plausibly detect phosgene and vinyl chloride.)
They say they did test for phosgene at least. https://mobile.twitter.com/MahoningCoEMA/status/162338173074... It’s plausible because phosgene should have been a small fraction of what was produced in the burn, and honestly it’s nasty enough that people would probably notice if they were breathing it.
Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment
#113>“Smoke and chemicals from the train, that’s the only thing that can cause it, because it doesn’t just happen out of nowhere,” Holzer says. “The chemicals that we’re being told are safe in the air, that’s definitely not safe for the animals … or people.” >“All the readings we’ve been recording in the community have been at normal concentrations, normal background, what you would find in almost any community operating…
Or the people working for the EPA didn't want to get downwind of the plume themselves, so they took their air / water samples upwind of the mess, to avoid exposure (and maybe to make things look less bad as well) and called it a day. Really wouldn't be surprising.
I'd expect anybody measuring things near there to be in full HAZMAT-suits? Especially if this is declared as local state of emergency, and the National Guard involved?
Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is yet another symptom of shareholders becoming the primary customer. The strong incentive for short-term profit results in strategic decision-making that is both financially riskier and more ethically dubious in the long term.
Ok. Do you realize that most of us are the shareholders? This is a Fortune 500 company. Most of our 401ks include blended Fortune 500 holdings. I keep hearing this rhetoric around social media… Do people not realize that there is a cost to our retirement funds always having to increase in value?
I think this outcome was unintentional, but in hindsight this feels like the greatest trick megacapitalism ever pulled.
A disproportionate amount of equity growth goes to the wealthy but the middle class has also hitched their futures to the stock market through 401ks. This means that "well, grandma's retirement also depends on record corporate profits" is a nearly invincible tactic against anything that diminishes corporate profits. The folks that own a disproportionate amount of equities get to untouchably balloon their wealth and there is nothing to stop them because stopping them would mean blowing up a generation's retirement plan.
Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a bit disappointed that none of the reporting on this incident I have come across is making these links.
Now you're asking that question, you might also ask why we saw more news stories days ago about this derailment in the European media than we did in the US.
Or why we're seeing so much coverage of random "balloons" being shot over US airspace. It just feels off and convenient, even if not a downright conspiracy.
Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment
#116>“Smoke and chemicals from the train, that’s the only thing that can cause it, because it doesn’t just happen out of nowhere,” Holzer says. “The chemicals that we’re being told are safe in the air, that’s definitely not safe for the animals … or people.” >“All the readings we’ve been recording in the community have been at normal concentrations, normal background, what you would find in almost any community operating…
Or the people working for the EPA didn't want to get downwind of the plume themselves, so they took their air / water samples upwind of the mess, to avoid exposure (and maybe to make things look less bad as well) and called it a day. Really wouldn't be surprising.
Do we have any reason to believe that happened? There’s been training and response plans for this kind of thing going back to the 70s so it seems like that would be a huge scandal.
Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here’s my attempt at a steel man: JD Vance is one of the bad guys on the bad guys team. Whenever bad things happen it’s the bad guys’ fault. I’m aware that sounds like a pretty poor alloy, but it’s internally consistent, matches the observables, and I can’t really honestly do better. Edit: The point of this is to explain what this derailment has to do with JD Vance. Any reply that fails to explain why JD Vance is som…
If bad guys are what you call politicians that repeatedly call to strike down industrial safety measures & corporate accountability, then I could perhaps say that you are on to something
I wasn’t able to find anything about striking down industrial safety measures in JD Vance’s campaign platform or voting record. Can you? If not then what does this have to do with JD Vance?
Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here’s my attempt at a steel man: JD Vance is one of the bad guys on the bad guys team. Whenever bad things happen it’s the bad guys’ fault. I’m aware that sounds like a pretty poor alloy, but it’s internally consistent, matches the observables, and I can’t really honestly do better. Edit: The point of this is to explain what this derailment has to do with JD Vance. Any reply that fails to explain why JD Vance is som…
If you were actually trying to "steel man" wouldn't you say "policies which make this type of industrial accident more likely" rather than "policies that are bad/you disagree with," which makes it sound childish and random?
I can’t find any evidence of JD Vance supporting such policies in either his platform or his voting record. I don’t think just making things up counts as steel manning.
Incidentally, in the USA Congress has delegated the power to regulate rail safety to the Executive branch which last I knew was controlled by the Good Guys. So I’m really at a loss how to show that this has anything to do with a freshman senator in the minority. I begin to think nobody else knows how to either. The miasma theory of Vance’s affiliation with the Bad Guys somehow making bad things happen in his state really is the best argument anyone has presented here.
Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment
#119What specific chemicals?
Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment
#120Anyone know which chemicals?