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Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

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Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#111

Post by bagels »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #81
willcipriano wrote: post #10

I worked for a restaurant that did this to me. To make sure I hit the "minimum hours" (when you start talking about hours vs tasks or responsibilities you probably aren't getting into a legitimate salary arrangement) they would have me clock in and out, and I'd get pay stubs with 40 hours (less if I worked less) and the overtime hours paid at $0. They withheld my last paycheck when I quit and stopped responding to my…

> Couple weeks later they send me a check for 20 grand out of the blue Glad this ended up working out in your favor. Your story makes me wonder how often such a practice doesn't end with the employer forking up the 20 grand they stole. I guess I've heard it said that wage theft is the most common form of theft but this is still rather frustrating to think about. Does this sort of practice come with some other punishm…

The most common outcome is that the employee ends up with no remedy because most people don't know anything about labor laws or about the fact that most states have a department of labor or equivalent that can solve the problem for you.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#112

Post by reidjs »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #85
reidjs wrote: post #82

There's more nuance to this topic than "Company bad! They trick dumb labor into a bad deal!" Money isn't the only form of compensation a job can provide. Give a low level worker a $0.43 cent raise, and they won't give a crap, it's not enough to change anything. But give them an 'employee of the month' medal and a new title, arguably worth much less than $0.43 cents, and they may actually prefer it! It's something for…

I was once a low-level worker who got a $0.75 raise and I cared enough to find a better job. Had nothing to do with my lack of "employee of the month" medal but rather the fact that I couldn't pay rent every month without adding to my credit card debt.

Fair enough I also don’t give a crap about company accolades or titles, and wish it would all just go towards increasing my compensation.

Some people, however misguided they may be, don’t think like we do though

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#113

Post by pxue »

realslimjd wrote: post #93
pxue wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a small government advocate, i have no issue with labor boards. the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner.

What do unions have to do with small government? A union contract is an agreement between two private parties.

Nothing. Small government is relating to government run labor boards.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#114

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

alar44 wrote: post #77
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand how $11.38 an hour is manager money in any line of work.

It's not and doesn't meet the minimum requirement for a salaried worker. I believe you need to make $48,500, or roughly $24ish/hr.

Hmm, you're right that's not the requirement now, but based upon the documents provided by ineptech, it looks like:

"To qualify for exemption, employees generally must meet certain tests regarding their job duties and be paid on a salary basis at not less than $684* per week." as of January 1, 2020. It was at the previously mentioned value before that.

So that's $17.10/hr to be a manager, or about $35k / year.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#115

Post by bagels »

alar44 wrote: post #77
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand how $11.38 an hour is manager money in any line of work.

It's not and doesn't meet the minimum requirement for a salaried worker. I believe you need to make $48,500, or roughly $24ish/hr.

Depends on the state.

Federally: Currently, the salary threshold for exempt employees is $684 a week ($35,568 annualized) https://www.fisherphillips.com/news-insights/planning-2023-c...

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#116

Post by [deleted] »

hourago wrote: post #26
pxue wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a small government advocate, i have no issue with labor boards. the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner.

> the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner. Unionization is a great way of solving disputes. Many big corporations need to be counter-weight with some other big organization. To put violence and unions at the same level seems uncalled for.

[deleted]

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#117

Post by Merad »

astura wrote: post #108
ornornor wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious: are you able to refuse a promotion. Especially this kind of “promotion”? What happens then? Do you get fired because… reasons or do you just keep your current job title etc?

If you're employed "at will" (and almost everyone in the US is) you can't refuse "promotions." From the company's perspective they are deciding to no longer employ you for position a, but they are simultaneously offering to employ you for position b. You can take it or leave it. Employment "at will" means either the employer or employee can end the relationship at any time for any reason or no reason at all.

> If you're employed "at will" (and almost everyone in the US is) you can't refuse "promotions." From the company's perspective they are deciding to no longer employ you for position a, but they are simultaneously offering to employ you for position b. You can take it or leave it.

That's not correct. Being employed at will means that you _can_ be let go for refusing a promotion (or just about any other reason) but it doesn't mean that automatically happens. There are plenty of companies that understand that some people reach a point where they don't care about climbing the ladder anymore and don't want to take on more responsibility.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#118

Post by commoner »

alar44 wrote: post #77
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand how $11.38 an hour is manager money in any line of work.

It's not and doesn't meet the minimum requirement for a salaried worker. I believe you need to make $48,500, or roughly $24ish/hr.

The Department of Labor's increase of the standard salary level to $47,476 was blocked by the courts.

> The Department increased the standard salary level from $455 per week ($23,660 per year) to $913 per week ($47,476 per year) in a final rule published May 23, 2016 (“2016 final rule”). That rulemaking was challenged in court, and on November 22, 2016, the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas enjoined the Department from implementing and enforcing the rule. On August 31, 2017, the court granted summary judgment against the Department, invalidating the 2016 final rule because it “makes overtime status depend predominately on a minimum salary level, thereby supplanting an analysis of an employee's job duties.” Nevada v. U.S. Dep't of Labor, 275 F. Supp. 3d 795, 806 (E.D. Tex. 2017).

The current standard salary level is $35,568.

> When applied to updated data, these methodologies result in a standard salary level of $684 per week ($35,568 per year) and an HCE total annual compensation level of $107,432. Finally, the Department intends to update these thresholds more regularly in the future.

> The Department estimates that in 2020, 1.2 million currently exempt employees who earn at least $455 per week but less than the standard salary level of $684 per week will, without some intervening action by their employers, gain overtime eligibility. The Department also estimates that an additional 2.2 million white collar workers who are currently nonexempt because they do not satisfy the EAP duties tests and currently earn at least $455 per week, but less than $684 per week, will have their overtime-eligible status strengthened in 2020 because these employees will now fail both the salary level and duties tests. Lastly, an estimated 101,800 employees who are currently exempt under the HCE test will be affected by the increase in the HCE total annual compensation level.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/09/27/2019-20...

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#119

Post by dfxm12 »

fHr wrote: post #72
pxue wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a small government advocate, i have no issue with labor boards. the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner.

Unionization is amazing. I do not know why especially people in US are so against this. Did they just gave up and are okay with the big corps fucking them over withouth having any leverage?

I do not know why especially people in US are so against this.

I think there's some truth to the old adage that there's a class of Americans, especially represented among the HN crowd that "see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

There are many reasons for the decline of organized labor in the US. Some cultural yeah, but just as much, if not more, legal...

"Right to work" legislation

Employers fighting harder against unionization

Decreased enforcement of labor laws

Judges (including SCOTUS) who keep striking down labor protections

Media portrayal of unions

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#120

Post by adrr »

nouveaux wrote: post #54
adrr wrote: post #38

Start sending manager and hr to jail for wage theft. If an employee falsified timesheets they can and have been convicted of theft. Why isn’t the reverse true? Jail is a huge motivating factor and why you don’t see wide spread accounting fraud in public companies.

That's probably not a path you want to go down. Do we start putting employees in jail for wage theft?

We already put people in jail for false timesheets. Wage theft is in the billions .

https://www.justice.gov/usao-md/pr/nsa-contractor-pleads-gui...

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