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Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

abc.net.au

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Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#111

Post by jon-wood »

krisoft wrote: post #87
iamtedd wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Localised"? Along a route 1400 km long? That's approximately the distance between New York City and Atlanta, GA. Or London, UK to Monaco.

Not in that sense. Localised in the sense that the dangerous zone was limited to a few tens of meters radius, and was unlikely to spread. As opposed to an airborne, or water soluble contamination which can spread to a wide area as the winds or the ground water flows.

One of the risks that was believed to exist was that the capsule had fallen onto the road, and could have become embedded in someone's car tire. That would then place the owner of that car within the few tens of meters radius multiple times a day, along with their neighbours, and anyone they park near on a regular basis.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#112

Post by c-fe »

kitd wrote: post #110
Pinegulf wrote: post #98

Small amount of radioactive materials go missing and it becomes international news. Things might be pretty good when it comes to nuclear materials safety after all.

Reddit had fun with this story. One guy was posting daily images of a small metal capsule he'd found, wondering what it was. Everyday the image deteriorated a bit, and he described feeling sicker. Comments were along the lines of "your passion for collecting is truly radiant".

do you mind sharing a link to these posts? I would like to read them

Edit: found them: https://old.reddit.com/user/JephriB/submitted/

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#113

Post by dtech »

perihelions wrote: post #101

Is the idea of blameless postmortem that exotic in the general public? If I hear that a critical safety system failed, my first association isn't "find the individual closest to responsibility, and look into whether a criminal prosecution is feasible". - "We have the ability to prosecute under the radiation safety act and we will certainly look at such prosecutions, and we've done that in the past," [Chief Health Off…

It is still good to place (organizational) blame and fines on such a thing, otherwise it's financially the most attractive option to take inappropriate risks.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#114

Post by ragebol »

gambiting wrote: post #28
ragebol wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Radiation-poison people? There's not enough material, even if it was Uranium or Plutonium to make any sort of bomb IIRC, you need kilos for that not, (micro)grams.

I think that's probably the biggest risk - you could just plant it somewhere where it wouldn't be found for a while, giving everyone around it major radiation sickness.

10 X-rays an hour according to Wikipedia [0], which is already updated to the news.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesium-137?useskin=vector#Jan...

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#115

Post by eternityforest »

logifail wrote: post #100
8organicbits wrote: post #93

I wonder what lessons learned and mitigations will come out of this. My armchair analysis is that there should be a Geiger counter on any vehicle moving radioactive material. I suspect the device had shielding to protect the driver, so an alarm should have gone off when that shielding broke. From that point on the driver was sitting close to an unshielded radiation source and in danger. I'm not an expect, but I suspe…

> the sudden drop in radioactivity when the capsule left the truck should have triggered an alarm and GPS log Shouldn't a radioactive source should be shielded when not in use, especially when it's being transported? If so there shouldn't be significant radiation coming from the shielded source inside the truck...

The Geiger counter doesn't have to be in the truck. It can even be integrated with the equipment being carried, so it can raise the alarm no matter where it is, as long as it has battery.

It could even use a low power solid state sensor since the radioactivity is so strong, and when it detects radiation, start dead reckoning until it gets a GPS lock, so you could potentially still get good info with a coin cell level device, although you'd want more, because ideally you'd have a satellite signal.

I wonder if there's any way to use the EPIRB satellites for that, or if the data is too limited to add a "Watch out, there's nuclear stuff here, this isn't a stranded hiker" flag?

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#116

Post by tourist2d »

noduerme wrote: post #105

Okay, sorry, call me cynical but what are the odds Rio Tinto placed a capsule by the side of the road, to walk off with a $1,000 fine, while whoever ripped open the gauge and stole the material is out there planning God-knows-what?

Ease up on the YouTube conspiracy videos.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#117

Post by noir_lord »

eternityforest wrote: post #115
logifail wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the sudden drop in radioactivity when the capsule left the truck should have triggered an alarm and GPS log Shouldn't a radioactive source should be shielded when not in use, especially when it's being transported? If so there shouldn't be significant radiation coming from the shielded source inside the truck...

The Geiger counter doesn't have to be in the truck. It can even be integrated with the equipment being carried, so it can raise the alarm no matter where it is, as long as it has battery. It could even use a low power solid state sensor since the radioactivity is so strong, and when it detects radiation, start dead reckoning until it gets a GPS lock, so you could potentially still get good info with a coin cell level…

Do we have a Gieger Counter Sensor for when the Gieger Counter falls of the truck as well and does that need a Gieger Counter Sensor Sensor? (tongue in cheek).

Seems like a simpler solution would be to prioritise checking some shipments over others at departure and arrival.

My partner works in shipping/logistics and hazardous chemicals/products are treat completely differently to regular bulk cargo.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#118

Post by gambiting »

ragebol wrote: post #114
gambiting wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's probably the biggest risk - you could just plant it somewhere where it wouldn't be found for a while, giving everyone around it major radiation sickness.

10 X-rays an hour according to Wikipedia [0], which is already updated to the news. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesium-137?useskin=vector#Jan...

Wikipedia doesn't say that, but it was given as a rate at one meter away. If you were to hold it in your hand or put it in your pocket, you'd give yourself radiation burns pretty much instantly. Imagine sticking this under(or even inside, it doesn't matter with gamma) a politician's desk where they sit for a few hours a day - at the beginning they wouldn't feel much, but after just one day the burns they suffer would be enormous.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#119

Post by detaro »

noduerme wrote: post #105

Okay, sorry, call me cynical but what are the odds Rio Tinto placed a capsule by the side of the road, to walk off with a $1,000 fine, while whoever ripped open the gauge and stole the material is out there planning God-knows-what?

From their secret stockpile of illegal unregistered radiation sources they smuggled into the country to replace lost registered sources with?

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#120

Post by andrewstuart »

Loic wrote: post #23

I am not surprised the found the capsule, I am surprised by the very professional way the company handled the case. If you look at the timeline of events (see link from dang comment), they reacted extremely quickly and professionally, from the contractor doing the transport to Rio Tinto informing the authorities. For me Rio Tinto was the company not taking care of our environment[0] in its operations, so for once, I…

Rio Tinto are never professional, they’re trying hard not to damage their rock bottom reputation further after the fact of stuffing something up, destroying something, being negligent. If they’re giving the appearance of being good at that, don’t mistake it for professionalism. It’s simply that they know the cost to them in the future of worldwide headlines in which they lost nuclear material.

Rio Tinto Enviro Destructo.

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