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WTF with high school questions?

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Re: WTF with high school questions?

#111
post #55

Why do recruiters have such trouble with such a simple task like gauging a candidate's real skills? Seriously. Here is how to do it. I'm looking for a React Developer, I ask the following simple questions: 1. Tell my about your contributions to major projects you have been involved in. (if they share their work ask more in-depth questions about it) 2. With $givenTechnologyStack, how do you usually solve state managem…

> Why do recruiters have such trouble with such a simple task like gauging a candidate's real skills? Firstly because that's not their job, and secondly because recruiters aren't just there to hire for developers and they aren't going to be subject matter experts enough to judge between good answers to questions like that and bullshit.

> recruiters aren't just there to hire for developers

Most companies I've interviewed at over the years (basically all but the smallest startups) have had dedicated recruiters for developers; different people hired sales or marketing or other roles. This doesn't mean that they should be expected to be technical experts, but I do think it's interesting that the box-checking type of interviews rather than just having a genuine conversation also seem to be more common the larger the company is. It's probably not surprising, since the need for standardizing interviews is higher when you have a larger number of people performing the interviews, but it's a little ironic that the most boilerplate interviews I've had were all with recruiters who specifically only interview developers.

Then again, I also tend to get bounced around to different recruiters far more frequently with the larger companies. There have been times I've been passed around to half a dozen recruiters within the span of a month or so; one makes the initial contact, then another talks to me on the phone, then another coordinates my technical interview schedule, and then another actually gives me the offer, who then refers me to one final other recruiter to actually respond yes or no (and maybe negotiate if possible). I know some of these are probably a more entry-level position that I've seen referred to as "recruiting coordinators" rather than full-fledged recruiters (meaning that they often handle the logistics like scheduling but don't perform interviews themselves), but it still feels absurd to have to talk to so many different people for basically the same thing. My impression is that it's somewhat intentionally trying to put me at a disadvantage by making it impossible for me to carry over any expectations from one step to the next (e.g. one recruiter might say something about compensation or benefits and then the next one conveniently doesn't know what I'm talking about and can claim that no one would have told me that).

Re: WTF with high school questions?

#112

A common situation in my country is that quite a few high school math teachers are psychotic sadists -- maybe a few of the hardest-working students will clear the bar for the equivalent of an A or B. Sometimes the students with "the most potential" will have average (or worse) grades because the teacher prepares special, harder exams to push them harder. High school is usually an unrepresentative mess, I'd to love le…

My high school math teacher went crazy on me when I withdrew from the math olympiad prep class due to scheduling conflicts with assembler language class in my first year and then did everything possible for me to fail over the next 4 years. Not sure how would that teacher bear hearing I made it to top schools despite their best efforts...

Re: WTF with high school questions?

#114
post #74

Why do recruiters have such trouble with such a simple task like gauging a candidate's real skills? Seriously. Here is how to do it. I'm looking for a React Developer, I ask the following simple questions: 1. Tell my about your contributions to major projects you have been involved in. (if they share their work ask more in-depth questions about it) 2. With $givenTechnologyStack, how do you usually solve state managem…

The notion of looking for a "React" developer is rather silly to begin with so any employer doing that can expect poor results. Competent hiring managers like look for more general skills plus the ability to quickly learn new technologies as needed. Tomorrow the industry will move on to something else and React will become obsolete. If you need specific technical skills in React for an urgent project then retain a co…

You're right, I forgot.

Competent hiring managers look for folks with 10 years experience with React, C#, Java, DevOps, Embedded C++ Development, Mobile cross platform dev and ofc Rust for good measure, each.

We have long forgotten about doing one thing and doing it right.

Re: WTF with high school questions?

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canonical makes infrastructure that I (and a significant slice of the world economy) depend on. If they want to significantly bias their application pool to people who are willing to tolerate that question, then I'm a bit concerned that I've invested years and years building on a decaying foundation, and now I have to investigate.

Wait until you find out about the application process for literally every large company you have ever used...

A larger company would likely separate out "new grads" and give them the stupid high school questions.

Re: WTF with high school questions?

#116

> ... but could indicate age bias. Tangential, but... has anyone successfully prosecuted against age bias in tech? I've never heard of a single person that was able to prove it, and/or do anything about it. As someone with 32 years experience, it's kind of freaky, honestly. If it's true that the number of software developers has doubled every 4.5 years (I don't remember where I read this, so don't have a source :( ),…

Do anything about it like change the world? Probably not. Like get a settlement? Absolutely. There are a lot of JDs from Google Law School on this site and in the interest of not appearing as one, just look into plaintiff side employment law firms in your area. But disparate impact and disparate treatment are different and both are grounds for a lawsuit. A policy asking about high school GPA when we know there’s no good reason to ask that is taking steps towards a prima facie case of the former under US law, but especially in California if that’s where you are. Even in hiring this is very close to a no no here.

Re: WTF with high school questions?

#117
The best way to see if someone will perform well at a job, is to have them do that job and see. The second best way is to ask them for proof they succeeded at a similar job. That proof is usually a combination of references and a discussion about work they did at the previous job.

If you can't do any of those things, like for some recent grads, then the next best predictors of job performance are going to be psychometrics, specifically IQ and trait conscientiousness. Colleges heavily select for these traits during admissions, but less so with the actual course work. These traits are most predictive when you expect to teach a person the job on the job, with their prior experience being irrelevant.

So it's not that there is no evidence for these questions being useful. It's just that there are usually better signals on offer.

Re: WTF with high school questions?

#118

This is dumb. If you don't want to apply, don't. If you think something is no one else's business, don't tell them. But don't cry when they discard your application because they think it IS relevant, because shockingly you don't personally have a monopoly on truth...

Canonical makes infrastructure that I (and a significant slice of the world economy) depend on. If they want to significantly bias their application pool to people who are willing to tolerate that question, then I'm a bit concerned that I've invested years and years building on a decaying foundation, and now I have to investigate.

Canonical's model is to copy Debian testing, change the branding and apply some set of patches to it, then ship it. Every six months or so they pick up the new Debian testing and repeat.

Debian is solid. Ubuntu's layer on top is a bit ymmv.

Re: WTF with high school questions?

#119

Shopify has an initial round with recruiter called "Life Story interview". You basically start from the beginning, talking about your high school experience, what did you like there and what did you study, your childhood hobbies ...

A few years ago I worked at a place that wanted to implement "Life Story Interviews." I had the experience of several candidates responding, basically, WTF?? and hanging up.

Re: WTF with high school questions?

#120
post #25

While I agree that questions about High School are dumb, if a candidate answered the question with "this question is irrelevant" in a free-form text field (as they did in the screenshot), I would probably thing twice about hiring the person.

The candidate would go right to the top of the stack. They call bullshit when they see it.
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