Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#111

Post by lesuorac » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 9:33 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #25

"Customers looked at the higher prices ($25 for the chicken instead of $21, $17 cocktails instead of $14) and ordered fewer and less-expensive items, even though they were paying exactly the same amount for them by tacking 20% onto the check at meal’s end." You know what, I worry about this sometimes. We think that we're so evolved and advanced race - that we have poetry and literature, modern medicine and rocket sci…

> a lot of very intelligent people will see that $25 burger and decide that they'd rather go somewhere where the burger is $20, because it "feels cheaper".

Isn't that the whole foundation of capitalism?

If I'm the best at making widgets I can pump them out at $4/pop while the competition needs to do $5/pop and eventually my process for widget making is the dominate one. Maybe somebody innovates and gets down to $3/pop but in the end society is able to get more widgets/$.

IMO, the real problem is all of these hidden fees. The idea of a price is that it's how much something will cost. The fact that you can juice your sales by providing a non-total price is a market distortion and should be corrected.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#112

Post by red-iron-pine » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 9:34 PM UTC

konfusinomicon wrote: post #77

I delivered pizza back in the day, over 10 years ago now.. I still remember the few people that went above and beyond and gave me a really good tip.. today I don't work for tips, but those feelings have influenced how I tip today and I hope that the pizza people whom I tip well will remember my acts of kindness and some day when they are more fortunate as I am now, will pay it forward to the next pizza guy, and the s…

Everyone should have to do a couple of years at a service job. Teaches you a lot of humility, and changes how you view a lot of folks.

A summer or two working in a food truck where the internal temp was around 49C will teach you appreciate jobs where you sit on a few softball meetings and write documentation.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#113

Post by red-iron-pine » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 9:35 PM UTC

syntaxing wrote: post #99

hgomersall wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well a bribe is normally an inducement to do something unethical. If it's not unethical, we call that a transaction.

I’m not sure if that’s true? Back then in the 50s in most Asian countries, you wanted water at a hospital? “Tip” the nurse $1. Want fresh blood transfusion, “tip” the nurse and doctor $10 on top of the cost of the blood. I’m not sure the outcome needs to be nefarious and unethical for it to be considered a bribe.

Most Asian countries? You're gonna have to get a little more specific, cuz that just isn't true for many.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#114

Post by bena » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 9:36 PM UTC

alexb_ wrote: post #21

alexb_ wrote: post #7

Servers like it, customers like it, business owners like it, clearly we must get rid of it

To people replying to this saying that customers don't like it - do you have literally anything to back that up other than you not liking it?

Do you have literally anything to back up the notion that customers do like it besides a restauranteur claiming customers like it?

Even if the people with nothing but their own dislike of it have only that, it's still more. Because they are customers.

The only thing you can really use as proof is that customers don't hate it enough to collectively stop. Which is hardly an endorsement.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#115

Post by lesuorac » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 9:37 PM UTC

Kranar wrote: post #87

treeman79 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burger Kings Third-of-a-Pound failed because people thought it was less meat then a quarter pounder. Because 4 is greater than 3.

It was A&W and it's almost certainly BS. The only source for this was a single restaurant that hired a marketing firm to identify the reason for the failure. The marketing firm conducted a single focus study, whose methodology remains unknown but reported that one participant in the study asked why they should pay more money for a smaller product. Let me tell you something about marketing firms, many of don't exactly…

> The firm eventually conducted a focus group to discover the truth: participants were concerned about the price of the burger. "Why should we pay the same amount for a third of a pound of meat as we do for a quarter-pound of meat?" they asked.

> It turns out the majority of participants incorrectly believed one-third of a pound was actually smaller than a quarter of a pound. [1]

Sure maybe only a single person asked the question but it sounds like they then polled the entire focus group afterwards. I'm not too sure what leading question to ask to get somebody who understands 1/3 > 1/4 to answer the inverse.

[1]: https://awrestaurants.com/blog/aw-third-pound-burger-fractio...

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#116

Post by xboxnolifes » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 9:39 PM UTC

jsz0 wrote: post #57

I was totally fine with tipping for 30 years of my life until I recently encountered a gas station checkout with a tip prompt. I heard Captain Picard in my head telling me the line must be drawn here. Now I only tip at dine in restaurants where I eat often and generally the bare minimum because of the inflation of base menu prices. I am not paying anyone $25 to bring me food and drinks. Incidentally I've known plenty…

What tipped me over the edge on my acceptance of tipping culture, was seeing a tip screen pop up on a display after paying at what was essentially a local fast-food place. What service am I tipping here for? That I liked the 1 minute I talked to worker?

When I was younger, It made sense to me to tip housekeeping if you make a small ask of them, or to tip a service worker if you make a request outside the norm; you're asking more of them than most people after all, and you want to add some grease. But what is with tipping for doing the standard of exchanging money for goods and services?

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#117

Post by red-iron-pine » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 9:39 PM UTC

bena wrote: post #10

People I will not listen to about the necessity of tipping culture: people who work in a restaurant and benefit from American tipping culture.

Most folks working in restaraunts don't "benefit" -- in several states their hourly wage is $2.13 an hour plus tips. If no tables come in then that's literally all you get. Their "benefit" is, occasionally, a living wage.

There are a handful of very hot, busy venues with high prices and turnover, but those are the exception, not the rule. FAANG salaries vs. the average IT / tech worker.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#118

Post by gtvwill » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 9:43 PM UTC

Lol imagine having a labor market where the base wage is so low you have to rely on tips for people to survive. Ontop of that, imagine having a labor market where humans were such a neglected resource your boss thinks it's ok to hire an individual for an entire day but not pay them enough to survive or price his sales enough to be able to do so. It's absurd. Truly an astounding way to to setup your economy. Couple it w the backlash/how long it took you to get healthcare for all. It's almost like your country hates its own people. Why make things so cruel and difficult for zero benefit?

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#119

Post by wyre » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 9:45 PM UTC

Kon-Peki wrote: post #89

twoodfin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially post-pandemic, I've come to view those flip-around screens as an opportunity for direct, voluntary, progressive income redistribution, or price discrimination, if you like. Paying an extra couple of bucks for falafel or a slice of pizza really doesn't mean anything to me, it presumably means a good bit more to whomever's behind the Square terminal.

I've become so cynical; I assume that by the time the card processor and Silicon Valley take their cut, the employee is left with a few extra pennies. I'm way less likely to tip when I see a flip-around screen. I hate them.

Square, et al. take 3% for CC processing.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#120

Post by xboxnolifes » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 9:45 PM UTC

dopidopHN wrote: post #58

For context : restaurant and bars in many ( most ? ) countries function without tips. Function=do not go belly up too much. More context : the state take over some employers responsibilities by providing healthcare, unemployment, and retirement insurances. ( none of that is free, it’s been pay by both employers and employees ) More context : prices are fair, in the sense that middle class folks in those place can aff…

It's not that it's unreal to remove tipping. It's that there is no big incentive to do so. If anything, there is pretty big incentive to keep it. Restaurants like it as it allows them to appear cheaper by offloading the visible cost into the tip. Many servers like it as cash tips are frequently used as untaxed income.