Live data from Hacker News

No Start Menu for You

randomascii.wordpress.com

111–120 of 281 posts

Re: No Start Menu for You

#111
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much. A lot of this sort of functionality is offloaded onto opaquely named services. So now you have decide if some access should or should not be allowed; but with very little information as to what process will in the end use that access. I used Glasswire for a long time, and when you install it on a new machine you get a lot of allow/block notifications; but then if you go back and look at the 'rule set' that…

It's been a while since I used Windows with any kind of seriousness (and the last version I did was 7), so I wasn't aware that this kind of thing is offloaded to separate, shared processes like that. > Not to mention, there isn't a whole lot of software left that doesn't need at least some networking for its 'primary' functionality. Case in point, Microsoft Office has no good reason to be aware of the existence of th…

"Case in point, Microsoft Office has no good reason to be aware of the existence of the internet."

shrug I think the same, but it's a fact that new versions of Word heavily integrate with Sharepoint and Teams. I don't use that functionality (at least not a lot), but for some businesses it's the primary use case, and it's how Word can manage to stay relevant even when competing with Google Docs. The concept of 'files' is going away slowly anyway, like it or not. (I don't, but again, nobody ever asked me). There's more - like, when you install a new spell checking language pack, something accesses the internet. It's most likely the installer/automatic updater 'service' that does this, but then you're again in the 'what's this process for anyway' territory.

My point - I think your view on how software 'should' behave is the same as mine, but the reality is that our view is outdated. It's just not how software works in 2023.

It's actually timely for me, as I just started using Glasswire with a clean ruleset. As I'm typing this, freakin' explorer.exe asked for network access to an outside IP address. It's hard to disallow explorer.exe network access as I won't be able to access SMB shares without it, but I have no idea why it would go outside my network.

I did just block Word from accessing the network at all. I guess I'll find out over the next few days in what ways it will break.

(that's another thing - most software nowadays doesn't even handle not having network access gracefully any more, if at all. Sometimes you just get blank parts of a window (presumably when embedded HTML views silently fail) and there is no way to 'reload' those parts of the UI. Or windows that don't open at all, so it just looks like a button doesn't do anything. And so on. It's disgraceful and like I said upthread, many of today's engineers just think it's normal, or are told to implement it that way against their own convictions. I mean I understand why things are they are, I just don't agree with the lack of effort in fighting back against the drivers of that outcome.)

Re: No Start Menu for You

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/procthread/p...

The way this is implemented in Windows seems to be fundamentally broken though, because when my laptop is busy compiling in Visual Studio, I cannot even scroll UI views with the touchpad - exactly this would never happen on an Amiga, no matter how many things it does at the same time (my uneducated guess is that the touchpad driver - or any other thread related to input processing - isn't priority-boosted as well).

To be fair Linux DE's all seem to have this problem too, so it's at least decently hard. I really wish it had some interest in the desktop space: no matter how loaded up my system gets, with what type of storage subsystem. there should never be a reason that my environment stops responding to user inputs.

As it is, it seems like a ton of stuff is done in the "yeah we'll just mmap and let the kernel sort it out" which is absolutely the wrong approach for UI.

Re: No Start Menu for You

#113
post #75
post #34

I think search is hard generally. I switched to an M1 Mac pro recently, and it has its own set of challenges. For instance, there is no start menu but a search bar called Spotlight. You do your quick math in there (where you'd call calc.exe in Windows). However, it only accepts your query as math... sometimes. Like 50% of the times. Otherwise it searches the web. If you search for a program, it takes just that tiny s…

Huh. I maximize most of my programs. They maximize in a separate desktop and I switch between them with three finger swipe. Also noticed yesterday that you can tile windows left right by long-pressing on the maximize button.

> Huh. I maximize most of my programs. They maximize in a separate desktop and I switch between them with three finger swipe.

That's full-screen, not maximised[1].

It's also something I hate - I make an app full-screen and suddenly it's on a different desktop, so my awareness of what apps are on which desktop is completely gone - I can no longer to ctrl-alt-right twice to get from my golang desktop to my browser desktop, I need to move away from my keyboard, lean over to the macbook and three-finger swipe.

As far as Apple are concerned, no one ever docks their MB into an external screen, keyboard and mouse. You're supposed to do all of your work squinting.

[1] Someone will no doubt correct me if I am using the wrong terms.

Re: No Start Menu for You

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at Alfred: https://www.alfredapp.com/ I’ve been using it since v1, it’s extremely configurable, very very snappy and doesn’t suffer from the common AI-problems, that seems to be forced into searches everywhere these days. (EDIT: it’s a Spotlight replacement)

Switched to Raycast and never looked back. Incredible tool.

A great tool no doubt, but I'm personally not a fan of their extensions architecture. Last time I checked, it silently installed it's own complete and default build of NodeJS with NPM and everything.

The extensions themselves are manually reviewed before being made available, but are - or were at least then - otherwise given free reign over the host system and even inherit the accessibility permissions (aka MacOS "godmode" for apps) that Raycast requires to function. To make this whole thing even more questionable, extensions are automatically and silently updated in the background, without a way for the user to disable this.

Makes you wonder in what other parts of this closed source app secure practices might have also taken a backseat.

Long story short: Very helpful tool, but their extensions architecture is quite insecure.

Re: No Start Menu for You

#115
post #34

I think search is hard generally. I switched to an M1 Mac pro recently, and it has its own set of challenges. For instance, there is no start menu but a search bar called Spotlight. You do your quick math in there (where you'd call calc.exe in Windows). However, it only accepts your query as math... sometimes. Like 50% of the times. Otherwise it searches the web. If you search for a program, it takes just that tiny s…

>Tiling left / right etc? Doesn't exist.

It sort of does, but it's not as obvious as it should be. Mouse over the green zoom button in the top-left corner of a window, hold the option key on your keyboard, and then "move window left" and "move window right" options appear.

Re: No Start Menu for You

#117
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much. A lot of this sort of functionality is offloaded onto opaquely named services. So now you have decide if some access should or should not be allowed; but with very little information as to what process will in the end use that access. I used Glasswire for a long time, and when you install it on a new machine you get a lot of allow/block notifications; but then if you go back and look at the 'rule set' that…

It's been a while since I used Windows with any kind of seriousness (and the last version I did was 7), so I wasn't aware that this kind of thing is offloaded to separate, shared processes like that. > Not to mention, there isn't a whole lot of software left that doesn't need at least some networking for its 'primary' functionality. Case in point, Microsoft Office has no good reason to be aware of the existence of th…

> Its job is to open, view, edit, and save local files

That might have been the case 20 years ago (and even then Office had functionality to self-update).

Now, with OneDrive, cloud storage, Exchange, SharePoint, etc, people expect that Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc should work seamlessly with multiple users simultaneously editing documents.

Even IDEs and code editors have ‘network access’ now—VS Code can download and update itself and any extensions, connect to remote SSH hosts and GitHub Codespaces, use extensions that themselves connect to the Internet (like Copilot), etc.

People have come to expect some form of self-updating mechanism now even for the smallest programs (consider Rufus, an ISO burning program which can update itself, download ISOs to burn to USB drives, etc), and it’s counterproductive to just blanket-ban everything from accessing the Internet, as things are likely to stop working as expected.

Re: No Start Menu for You

#118
I use Win-Key and type stuff to launch programs in GNOME and it works very well, doing this in Windows hasn't worked well in the time I can remember using it - at best the search is slow, but a lot of the time it just doesn't find the thing I want - it feels janky.

Re: No Start Menu for You

#119
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally the upload is in the background but here clearly the crashed process was considered so vital that the UI had to wait for it, which in turn meant it had to wait for the last instance to quit (after it was dumped). So the lesson here I think isn't that there should never be synchronous waiting for crash dump uploads the problem as I see it is 1) The fact that a process that important could crash. 2) That the u…

> clearly the crashed process was considered so vital that the UI had to wait for it This is not a case of it being important enough, this is the case for every single application: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20120611-00/?p=74...

I mean that RuntimeBroker.exe was considered so important that the UI process (Explorer.exe?) couldn't proceed to show the start menu while it wasn't running, and instead had to wait for it to run.

That RuntimeBroker couldn't restart until the last instance was dumped is what's true for all processes. But that doesn't explain why the UI block waiting for it and not show the start menu.

RuntimeBroker may be required to show the complete/correct start menu because it relates to app permissions for store apps and similar, but Microsoft (again) likely overestimated the importance of their app store.

Re: No Start Menu for You

#120
post #34

I think search is hard generally. I switched to an M1 Mac pro recently, and it has its own set of challenges. For instance, there is no start menu but a search bar called Spotlight. You do your quick math in there (where you'd call calc.exe in Windows). However, it only accepts your query as math... sometimes. Like 50% of the times. Otherwise it searches the web. If you search for a program, it takes just that tiny s…

>Tiling left / right etc? Doesn't exist. It sort of does, but it's not as obvious as it should be. Mouse over the green zoom button in the top-left corner of a window, hold the option key on your keyboard, and then "move window left" and "move window right" options appear.

I think just hovering the cursor above the zoom button for a few seconds will also trigger the left/right tiling options.
Post reply on HN