Occupy Portland's Dec 3rd Tactic to Neutralize Police • Hacker News Board

Re: Occupy Portland's Dec 3rd Tactic to Neutralize Police

#111

Post by ldh » Tue, Jan 03, 2012, 3:18 PM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #108

andrewflnr wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about how to design a society, I'm talking about a necessary aspect of the relationship between government and the governed. Simply, the government cannot force you to do what it wants all the time. It's impossible, even for brutal totalitarian governments. A few slip through the nets. For a light example, think about speeding, or carpool lane compliance. Most of the time…

I think you'll find that obeying such things doesn't come from deference to authority, but rather peer pressure combined with a recognition of the justice of such regulations. The reason I don't speed in urban streets isn't because I want to obey the government; it's because I'll look like an ass, endangering other road users. I think there's a deeper issue. I suspect you have confused mechanism with purpose. Governm…

Well said, thank you.

Re: Occupy Portland's Dec 3rd Tactic to Neutralize Police

#112

Post by andrewflnr » Tue, Jan 03, 2012, 8:29 PM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #108

andrewflnr wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about how to design a society, I'm talking about a necessary aspect of the relationship between government and the governed. Simply, the government cannot force you to do what it wants all the time. It's impossible, even for brutal totalitarian governments. A few slip through the nets. For a light example, think about speeding, or carpool lane compliance. Most of the time…

I think you'll find that obeying such things doesn't come from deference to authority, but rather peer pressure combined with a recognition of the justice of such regulations. The reason I don't speed in urban streets isn't because I want to obey the government; it's because I'll look like an ass, endangering other road users. I think there's a deeper issue. I suspect you have confused mechanism with purpose. Governm…

I guess I include peer pressure in "conditioning". It's not that I think Occupy Portland will result, directly, in the overthrow of the United States government. I said they're the tools of government, but they're not being used forcefully yet, just waved around in the air by people who don't seem to know what they're playing with. "Corrosive to trust in government" is a good way of putting what bothers me about this.

We do need to demand change in our government. If we're going to act in unison, that's where we need to do it. I just don't see the games described in the article as being anything but destructive.

Re: Occupy Portland's Dec 3rd Tactic to Neutralize Police

#113

Post by devs1010 » Wed, Jan 04, 2012, 5:18 AM UTC

SageRaven wrote: post #107

devs1010 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't talking just about riot situations, U.S. police look sort of like this (especially where I am in Arizona) all the time, except without the masks.

Is this now state-wide or still only within the "Constitution-Free Zone" within 200 miles of Mexico's border? I was in Nogales looking for property in winter of '04, and I noted how many of the law enforcement were all dolled up in their military-like gear. This was before the checkpoints, so I never got too close. Still... if I wasn't white and driving a giant, made-in-America pickup truck, I certainly would not hav…

I'm in Phoenix.. IMO this state is insane, the government here really does deserve the scorn they get from the rest of the U.S., I am already planning my move out, I moved here a year and a half ago as it has a low cost of living, warm climate, etc and thought I would give it a shot but there is something very dark going on here with the government.