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Web IDE Beta

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Re: Web IDE Beta

#111

Post by coffee_cup »

StevePerkins wrote: post #99
terminal_d wrote: post #31

Anyone think there'll be another editor that'll surpass VSCode, similar to how VSCode surpassed Atom (and others)? I used to think that there would be one, but now I'm not so sure.

At the end of the day, VS Code is a shitty Electron app. It's one of the most highly optimized and performant Electron apps ever created... but it's still a shitty Electron app. Startup time on my machine is only a hair faster than Jetbrains IDE's launching a JVM, it's ridiculous. VS Code has the market share that it has because: 1. They encouraged a huge plugin ecosystem. 2. They made it cross-platform and gave it a…

well there's emacs, although it probably wouldn't qualify as 'attractive'

Re: Web IDE Beta

#112

Post by FpUser »

screamingninja wrote: post #87
terminal_d wrote: post #31

Anyone think there'll be another editor that'll surpass VSCode, similar to how VSCode surpassed Atom (and others)? I used to think that there would be one, but now I'm not so sure.

> Anyone think there'll be another editor that'll surpass VSCode Worthy mention- Zed is the spiritual successful of Atom that is being rewritten in Rust. Text editors gain and lose popularity often, so the potential is definitely there. https://zed.dev/

Rust - I would not give rat's ass about what language was used to write an IDE as long as it performs adequately. VS Code definitely does it. I for example can comfortable edit, compile and debug my code written in C++ and other languages locally and on remote servers with fast turnaround. VS code is the closest thing ever to come to a full blown modern IDE. Replicating this complete functionality and plugin ecosystem will not be easy. I would not even bother looking at things like Zed unless it can do the same things.

Re: Web IDE Beta

#113

Post by mikro2nd »

kristopolous wrote: post #103
greatgib wrote: post #35

I don't understand that girls is letting that going when they pretend to care for OSS. Microsoft is in the embrace phase, there is not a major forge that will remain that will not force to use their things. Then they will be able to start with messing things, like requiring proprietary extensions to lock down the thing. I guess a lot of people here don't remember the good old time of Visual Studio on Windows.

Or maybe Microsoft is done being a bastard. It's a different group of people steering the ship then it was 25 years ago. I know how fun it is to presume they are being exclusively evil but who knows, things can change

Or maybe not. It's harder to change an organisational DNA than just changing the people.

tl;dr: MS is still evil.

Re: Web IDE Beta

#114

Post by Kukumber »

metadaemon wrote: post #109
Kukumber wrote: post #94

That's a very bad signal.. Where did all the investor money go? just to slap vscode? I sincerely hope Sublime Text open sources its editor so the community can hack together a WASM version of ST.. Things are not looking great

For people who don’t like vs code?

Oh, people are free to like what ever they want

Specially the people who have a short memory and forgot about the recent Python extension controversy

Screw them!

Considering we were warned already from that company, remember dotnet hotreload?

https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/22/microsoft_net_hot_rel...

When your sole choice becomes their sole product, one should have reacted in the past

Re: Web IDE Beta

#115

Post by andrew_ »

kavalerov wrote: post #20

This looks really great, and nice to see both Github and Gitlab moving in this direction - ability to have IDE in the browser is great for many use-cases. However, I am a bit worried that it looks like most of these companies and up using VSCode. It really needs to have a good competitor in this space, and I hope JetBrains can match that eventually with partnerships of their own.

The way that VS Code is spreading, and the stranglehold Microsoft has on development and direction of the product, give me very strong IE4/5/6 vibes. I really hope some of the open source alternatives that aren't corporation-controlled gain traction over the next year.

Re: Web IDE Beta

#116

Post by andrew_ »

matkoniecz wrote: post #77
madeofpalk wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means that there is a truly OSS core VS Code (presumably what Gitlab and Code Sandbox uses), and proprietary extensions on top that Microsoft ship in their default (proprietary) distribution

If someone is a purist and wants to use it to avoid lock-in - it is available at https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium

I gave this an earnest try over the course of a few months. There were notable bugs in nearly all of the extensions I needed to use for work. It's known that Microsoft ships custom builds of the open source portion of VS Code, and there's certainly something missing from the open source core. I ended up going back to hobbled Atom while I wait for projects like Zed to mature.

Re: Web IDE Beta

#117

Post by andrew_ »

screamingninja wrote: post #87
terminal_d wrote: post #31

Anyone think there'll be another editor that'll surpass VSCode, similar to how VSCode surpassed Atom (and others)? I used to think that there would be one, but now I'm not so sure.

> Anyone think there'll be another editor that'll surpass VSCode Worthy mention- Zed is the spiritual successful of Atom that is being rewritten in Rust. Text editors gain and lose popularity often, so the potential is definitely there. https://zed.dev/

This is definitely the one I'm looking at closest. There's also Lapce https://github.com/lapce/lapce which has great velocity and looks to be a pretty welcoming project.

VS Code has become the IE of old imo and it'll take an industry shift to kick it, just like IE. Microsoft is not being a good steward of open source for the project, and over time that will wear on people. Hopefully that'll irritate the right people with the right amount of money to do something about it.

Re: Web IDE Beta

#118

Post by StevePerkins »

goguy wrote: post #108
StevePerkins wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end of the day, VS Code is a shitty Electron app. It's one of the most highly optimized and performant Electron apps ever created... but it's still a shitty Electron app. Startup time on my machine is only a hair faster than Jetbrains IDE's launching a JVM, it's ridiculous. VS Code has the market share that it has because: 1. They encouraged a huge plugin ecosystem. 2. They made it cross-platform and gave it a…

> If someone came out with a free, cross-platform, attractive text editor that was a native executable and got critical mass going with a plugin ecosystem, then VS Code would fall out of fashion within a year. Well yeah, there's the problem. This isn't an easy task, it has never been done before.

It's been done with Vim and Emacs, among others. Full desktop GUI versions, in addition to the original terminal-based form.

It just hasn't been done RECENTLY... with an editor that is visually attractive, and uses modern keyboard conventions rather than arcane keystroke DSL's that are inaccessible for the masses. But that's just a matter of project philosophy, not technical limitations with what's doable.

Re: Web IDE Beta

#119

Post by vorpalhex »

npteljes wrote: post #49
greatgib wrote: post #35

I don't understand that girls is letting that going when they pretend to care for OSS. Microsoft is in the embrace phase, there is not a major forge that will remain that will not force to use their things. Then they will be able to start with messing things, like requiring proprietary extensions to lock down the thing. I guess a lot of people here don't remember the good old time of Visual Studio on Windows.

Well, they can just fork if something happens, no? Or even phase out this product, if something goes that wrong.

Many core features like remote editing and python support use a DRM so they only run in VSCode and not forks.

Re: Web IDE Beta

#120

Post by FpUser »

StevePerkins wrote: post #99
terminal_d wrote: post #31

Anyone think there'll be another editor that'll surpass VSCode, similar to how VSCode surpassed Atom (and others)? I used to think that there would be one, but now I'm not so sure.

At the end of the day, VS Code is a shitty Electron app. It's one of the most highly optimized and performant Electron apps ever created... but it's still a shitty Electron app. Startup time on my machine is only a hair faster than Jetbrains IDE's launching a JVM, it's ridiculous. VS Code has the market share that it has because: 1. They encouraged a huge plugin ecosystem. 2. They made it cross-platform and gave it a…

>"At the end of the day, VS Code is a shitty Electron app. "

It provides huge practical value to me as a developer. I am not fond of JavaScript being used as front end but as long as it performs decent job for particular use case I do not care. I use development tools to develop products and make money. I do not fight holy tech wars.

>"Startup time on my machine is only a hair faster than Jetbrains IDE's launching a JVM, it's ridiculous."

I value my development time and my development computers are very decent (desktop for example is 16 core AMD with 128GB RAM). Launching VS code on my machines is nearly instant. CLion from JetBrains is much slower (10 sec from cold start to opening my C++ project in a usable state for example) but still very acceptable. I do not restart it every minute. More like once in few days when using it.

>"VS Code has the market share that it has because:"

I do not care why. I am a consumer here. It is for a people who want to beat VS Code to figure out why and do better than MS. Me - I have my own problems to worry about and I just use tools that work for me.

>"Most importantly of all (in my cynical opinion), they went "dark mode" by default at just the right time when this was becoming a trendy new feature among devs."

I do not give a flying fuck about what is trendy for a generic developer. What is important for me in VS code along with plugin ecosystem let's me develop, lint, debug my code locally and on remote servers. As long as proper ergonomics / usability guidelines are followed I do not really care whether the mode is dark or light.

>"If someone came out with a free, cross-platform, attractive text editor that was a native executable and got critical mass going with a plugin ecosystem, then VS Code would fall out of fashion within a year."

And if I had a million dollars I'd be rich. Coulda, shoulda, woulda. And VS code is way more than an editor.

>"No one wants to create desktop apps anymore".

I actually have native desktop product and it keeps bringing me some dosh for what is a very little maintenance.

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