'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon' • Hacker News Board

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#111

Post by jbooth » Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 6:21 PM UTC

anamax wrote: post #110

jbooth wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OF COURSE it's meaningful in a way that reciting jabberwocky would not have been. Reading the part of the constitution which protects people from unreasonable searches without probable cause, while being forced to undergo a search without probable cause. If it's still unclear how the amendment is meaningful in this situation, I'm going to ask that you go re-read the original article, then "letters from birmingham jai…

That being the case, her treatment was for resisting the search, not reciting the constitution. Reciting the constitution was merely how she resisted the search. I'm not claiming that the amendment is not meaningful. I'm pointing out how the amendment's meaning is relevant to what happened. The original article makes it clear that the reciter didn't understand that relevance. BTW I haven't written anything about the…

So really, your whole point here is 2 grammatical quibbles that everyone else could get past just fine?

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#112

Post by grannyg00se » Wed, Dec 28, 2011, 8:35 PM UTC

tommi wrote: post #90

grannyg00se wrote: post #73

This is a very interesting experiment she decided to conduct on what seems to be little to no research. I'm glad that she didn't get seriously injured or harassed or locked up for several days. From what I can tell, once they got her isolated she was treated very well. But it was dangerous. As far as I'm concerned, once you step into an airport (especially an american airport) you are no longer a citizen of any parti…

> This is a very interesting experiment she decided to conduct on what seems to be little to no research. How do you come to such conclusion? > But it was dangerous. In what way? Dangerous as in her constitutional rights might be violated? > As far as I'm concerned, once you step into an airport (especially an american airport) you are no longer a citizen of any particular country and have no rights. That is just sad…

I came to that conclusion because she seemed uncertain about what they could or could not do, and it seemed as though she expected a less severe outcome. Perhaps I was reading into it incorrectly.

It was dangerous as she could have been injured, detained at length, and possibly put on some kind of "harass this troublemaker anytime she steps into a security line" type of list. That her constitutional rights might be violated is almost a guarantee, although that wording is perhaps incorrect since you don't have those rights in an airport.

I agree the situation is sad.

It wasn't just a simple delay. It was a public disturbance. She was yelling out, causing a scene, being dragged around, etc. Seems to me that people planning mischief often set up a decoy disturbance. This seemed like exactly the type of disturbance one would plan deliberately as a decoy for another operation.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#113

Post by anamax » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 12:40 AM UTC

jbooth wrote: post #111

anamax wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That being the case, her treatment was for resisting the search, not reciting the constitution. Reciting the constitution was merely how she resisted the search. I'm not claiming that the amendment is not meaningful. I'm pointing out how the amendment's meaning is relevant to what happened. The original article makes it clear that the reciter didn't understand that relevance. BTW I haven't written anything about the…

So really, your whole point here is 2 grammatical quibbles that everyone else could get past just fine?

You seemed to think that those "quibbles" were important when you thought that they supported your position, so surely they're just as important when they don't.

She misrepresented what she did.

BTW - Comparing what she did with King cheapens King.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#114

Post by icebraining » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 1:15 AM UTC

eternalban wrote: post #96

revdinosaur wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, her behavior (and narrative) is similar to that of "sovereign citizen" types who imbue all sorts of psuedo-legal meaning to the U.S. Constitution and what they think it allows them to do. Not all sovereign citizen groups are violent but there were two police officers murdered in TX in 2010 and several militias operating under this philosophy.

State craft is complex and messy business, agreed. The government of Assad is currently facing "militias" in Homs and has the same precise pov as you. (It's reasonable; I'm not, repeat, blind to the burden of just rule.) But I myself, as an American citizen, strongly object to the continued attacks on my natural rights and these "solutions" that consistently erode the limits placed on the State powers. We had a revol…

To quote George Carlin (RIP):

Now, if you think you do have rights, I have one last assignment for ya. Next time you’re at the computer get on the Internet, go to Wikipedia. When you get to Wikipedia, in the search field for Wikipedia, i want to type in, “Japanese-Americans 1942″ and you’ll find out all about your precious fucking rights. Alright. You know about it.

In 1942 there were 110,000 Japanese-American citizens, in good standing, law abiding people, who were thrown into internment camps simply because their parents were born in the wrong country. That’s all they did wrong. They had no right to a lawyer, no right to a fair trial, no right to a jury of their peers, no right to due process of any kind. The only right they had was…right this way! Into the internment camps.

Just when these American citizens needed their rights the most…their government took them away. and rights aren’t rights if someone can take em away. They’re privileges. That’s all we’ve ever had in this country is a bill of TEMPORARY privileges; and if you read the news, even badly, you know the list gets shorter, and shorter, and shorter.

Yep, sooner or later the people in this country are going to realize the government doesn’t give a fuck about them. the government doesn’t care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare or your safety. it simply doesn’t give a fuck about you. It’s interested in it’s own power. That’s the only thing…keeping it, and expanding wherever possible.

The whole piece is just great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#115

Post by ibisum » Thu, Dec 29, 2011, 1:00 PM UTC

jballanc wrote: post #32

During the Cold War, there was this mentality held by leaders on both sides that said you could not show weakness to the enemy. It was this mentality that caused the Cuban Missile crisis, and that allowed it to be resolved by secret communication along privileged back-channels (all the while keeping public posturing such that neither side had to reveal any weakness). As idiotic as this mentality has always seemed to…

>I wonder how many Americans see the TSA, the Patriot Act, etc. as evidence of the greatness of America.

The TSA is evidence of the arrogant stupidity of America. Plenty of other great nations out there have problems with terrorism; however none are so atrociously arrogant about ignoring the roots of terrorism as Americans are. If you don't want people to randomly blow up your shit, stop blowing up other peoples shit with free will and reckless abandon.

The money spent on TSA could have quenched many grand fires of hatred in foreign lands for the acts of America; the price of a single CIA drone spent, instead, on hospitals and schools and water and food in places like Afghanistan, would guarantee a greater peace between American people and "Foreign" people .. yet the American people, themselves, continue to allow their military, and their government, to be impervious to any scrutiny of their criminal, dire, repulsive, inhumane acts upon foreign populations.

Until Americans actually confront the true nature of their "Great Nation's" atrocities abroad, they will be subject to to the whims of despicable forces who factually care no more about the American people, than they do 'Foreign entities'. The TSA is evidence that those militant masters who would willingly bomb ANYONE for their purposes, are quite happy turning the source of their great power (the American People) into willing slaves, cohorts and co-criminals in their endeavours.