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Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

iranintl.com

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Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#111

Post by throwawaymaths »

tokai wrote: post #75
throwawaymaths wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Gaddafi a murderous villain? By my understanding he sponsored IRA terrorists and unnecessarily attacked Egypt and Algeria in some minor conflicts and a few public executions (Lockerbie was pretty clearly a Syrian action).... That's it? I do think he claimed to be a murderous villain since that was working for assad I could be wrong but on raw terms it's not too far off from say any given us president in the last…

So how many people do you need to get killed before you can be a murderous villain? You are actually underlining the point with your apologia for a dictator. It also would be nice if US presidents also took the consequences of their crimes. But your whataboutism is not really an argument for anything here.

No apologia intended. I would call assad, putin a murderous villain. I would say Gaddafi murdered a few people.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#112

Post by adamsmith143 »

Alir3z4 wrote: post #106
adamsmith143 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the evidence exists lol but you don't burn your sources if you ever want another hot tip and certainly not when it likely means a horrible death for them if you do.

I like how you're confident the evidence exists by seeing 0 evidence. Sure. Apparently I should also believe Iran has WMD and NATO should attack it. It's coming from a unnamed sources.

Journalists != CIA/DOD for the majority of cases so this isn't really the own you think it is.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#113

Post by themitigating »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #108
themitigating wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Threat of punishment is the basis of all law. You can call it "fear" to garner sympathy for your argument but I think you're not being consistent with your application of justice

That kind of gets to my entire point. Of course it's not consistent application of Justice if it dictator can commit genocide and escape to another country. Everyone will agree that in a perfect world they would undergo trial and be sentenced. We don't live in a perfect world and have practical constraints. Like I said above, what are you going to do if a dictator flees to another country? Invade it and go to War wit…

Targeted assassination?

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#114

Post by rsj_hn »

This is not a real story, it's published by a regime change media outlet. There is an enormous anti-Iran Persian language media industry, staffed primarily by Persians in Los Angeles and to a lesser degree by Persians in London and Paris. Tens of thousands of people are employed full time in this industry, dwarfing the number of people employed in Persian language media in Iran itself. It's truly massive in scale, primarily funded by US/UK and EU governments as well as by Saudi Arabia, which is engaged in a cold war against Iran. It cranks out weaponized propaganda at a constant rate, with the goal of creating a revolution in Iran in which a pro-Western government is installed.

This particular influence operation is headquartered in London and is owned by Volant Media, and receives donations from Saudi Arabia[1]. Volant has offices in Washington DC, and owns this and a sister publication called "Afghanistan International", which was launched immediately after the Taliban capture of Kabul, and is now focused on waging information warfare against Afghanistan.

"Iran International TV emerged abruptly on the London media scene last year; many of the 100-strong staff network were offered generous salaries, often double what rivals paid, but was elusive about its source of funding."

"The source claimed Saud al-Qahtani, the crown prince’s information tsar, who was among two senior officials removed in connection with the Khashoggi affair, was involved in the funding behind Iran International TV."

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/31/concern-over-u...

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#115

Post by citilife »

mindslight wrote: post #83
citilife wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Putin was actually extremely clear why he invaded Ukraine. NATO was expanding to Russia's border https://nypost.com/2021/12/23/putin-demands-nato-not-expand-... Ukraine was hostile to the Russian people, banning their language in schools and refusing to uphold neutrality. France tried to broker a deal before the war broke out (upholding the Minsk agreements). https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-to-meet-macron-…

Well, I guess that was my fault for giving you an opening to dump all the thoroughly-debunked copypasta. In the post-WWII international order where lines on the map are generally respected to avoid war: Russia attacked, and continues to attack, a sovereign country. Period. If you pull it into some other paradigm than the post-WWII international order, where Russia presumably has some inherent right of conquest, then…

> thoroughly-debunked copypasta. In the post-WWII international order where lines on the map are generally respected to avoid war: Russia attacked, and continues to attack, a sovereign country. Period.

None of that has been debunked, it's quite literally factual events and treaties not honored that all parties admit weren't honored. None of those facts are in dispute by anyone.

Regardless, if you want to dive into the post-WWII international order, the right of self-determination also wasn't honored. The west aided in a coup in 2014, removing the elected leadership of Ukraine. After that, the western half of Ukraine voted to leave Ukraine. Only after 6-8 years of fighting between the Ukrainian parties did Russia become involved directly and a new vote (where they again voted to join Russia) did they in fact join Russia.

As with everything in life, it depends on perspective. I'm personally an avid pacifist. Taking a life is never justified, even in self-defense. I personally see both "sides" as acting poorly here.

That said, I can look at both arguments and obviously see Russia is acting in self-interest. Ukraine is acting in their interest. But only one side here has been having their homes shelled for 8 years (the Donbass).

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#116

Post by greggarious »

dotnet00 wrote: post #57
greggarious wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, I wasn't saying they wanted them. I was just saying it's weird to me if someone claims to want an Islamic Republic to move to a secular place rather than, say, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, or the UAE. Sorry -- I didn't mean to insult folks from Kosovo or Albania. (I'm not a nationalist, I just utilize the existing neoliberal laws and norms to move us to something more respectful of personal autonomy while respecti…

That sort of hypocrisy is pretty common for totalitarian regimes regardless of religious affiliation, the children of their high ranking leaders often spend most of their life enjoying the luxuries of liberal societies. That said, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UAE are especially problematic for Iranian leaders because Iran's official sect of Islam is opposed to that of those countries.

>That said, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UAE are especially problematic for Iranian leaders because Iran's official sect of Islam is opposed to that of those countries.

Ah yes, I keep forgetting about the whole Sunni/Shia (sp?) thing. (One of the many fun things I've mostly discussed verbally)

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#117

Post by greggarious »

Alir3z4 wrote: post #55
greggarious wrote: post #3

Huh? Is... Venezuela... particularly Islamic? Maybe Kosovo would be a better cultural fit.

LoL, I don't think Iranians officials want to apply asylum in there anywhere near Albania, the quota is already taken by Mojahedin-e-Khalq (MEK) (hint: terrorists org/cult)

I know what Mojahedin-e-Khalq is.

(I'm childfree in the "listens to a lot of crystal method" sense, but you run into all sorts.)

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#118

Post by mcv »

dogma1138 wrote: post #109
mcv wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the suggestion is that the removal of those mines will make it easier for future Iranian refugees to cross that border.

When Turkey did it around the Syrian border it wasn’t for refugees the shit has already hit the fan and I’m guessing that the Turkish military saw a possibility for intervention either in the war itself or against the Kurdish groups in that region. They cleared the minefield to be able to operate safely not because they were concerned for the safety of refugees. Turkey’s border with Iran is mainly with the West Azerb…

Maybe that's a more likely possibility. Northern Iran has Kurds. If the government of Iran falls and the country turns to chaos instead of democracy and the Kurds declare independence, then of course Turkey will want to be able to invade.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#119

Post by saint_fiasco »

themitigating wrote: post #107
saint_fiasco wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stroessner ruled Paraguay for a long time, but when he was old and his generals staged a coup against him he only gave token resistance and fled to Brazil right away. As far as I know he lived peacefully there until he died. He could have fought back much harder and plunged the country into a civil war like the one that got him into power in the first place. He chose to retire in wealth, comfort and peace instead.

How could he have fought back harder if his generals staged a coup?

The normal way to fight back against it is to prevent it. You are supposed to generously compensate the armed forces at the expense of the entire rest of the country.

Stroessner did that, but he was not single-minded enough about it. He could have plundered much more, he could have named a successor that his generals liked, he could have raised taxes to unsustainable levels to pay off his generals and buy more time. If his life literally depended on that, he probably would have.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#120

Post by s1artibartfast »

themitigating wrote: post #113
s1artibartfast wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of gets to my entire point. Of course it's not consistent application of Justice if it dictator can commit genocide and escape to another country. Everyone will agree that in a perfect world they would undergo trial and be sentenced. We don't live in a perfect world and have practical constraints. Like I said above, what are you going to do if a dictator flees to another country? Invade it and go to War wit…

Targeted assassination?

I don't think pros outweigh the cons for conducting a assassination on foreign soil for the sole purpose of Revenge when someone no longer poses a threat
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