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Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

bitwarden.com

111–120 of 138 posts

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#111
post #67

PassKey is great but also may cause vendor lock-in looking at Google and Apple in particular. Does anyone have any insights to how enterprises will be managing passkeys for corporate accounts with the potential of creds being leaked to potential compromised devices.

Hopefully, $20 USB keys.

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#112
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bitwarden webvault infrastructure is a doomsday target. If it's compromised, no evidence of a client backdoor will exist except in the server logs. You can't avoid using it, because you need to sign into the webvault to configure 2FA. Want to change the encryption passphrase? Guess what, you need to use the webvault. Bitwarden's vault encryption is essentially reduced to the security model of TLS.

And? If you don't trust TLS then I assume you don't trust web banking, or purchasing anything over the internet for that matter. Might as well give up on technology and go find yourself a nice quiet pastoral life.

I trust the cryptography behind TLS. I don’t trust every website using TLS. The difference between end-to-end encryption and transport-layer encryption is the website operator can recover the plaintext. And the point of the comment I responded to was that Bitwarden data is not recoverable. I’m glad that you think E2EE is a waste of effort though.

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#113
post #55
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for having an honest FAQ, especially about keys not being backed by hardware and its implications. Some competitors implementing a comparable mechanism have been very quiet about it and have severely undermined my trust in them. Hopefully we'll see OS and hardware vendors provide APIs so that third party passkey managers can leverage secure hardware in the future.

Yeah, trust is a big thing for me when it comes to security software, so I wanted to be upfront about what the software is good/bad against. I personally think that moving away from passwords is worth it, even if the credentials aren't stored in silicon, but I can appreciate those people who want their keys stored as securely as possible.

Admittedly I've done a little research, but every time I read about I don't understand how passkeys/fido/yubikey works. Is it guaranteed that all the services I use support passkey/yubikey/fido? If not, what should I do? Have some of services in a passkey/fido/yubikey (like yours) and the remaining in Bitwarden or other password manager?

Can someone ELI5 how this works? I went to fidoalliance.org and honestly, I didn't understand a thing. I still don't understand Yubikey and its MFA, it feels so cumbersome and huge PITA to do it every-time. Am I missing something? My workflow now is: CMD+SHIFT+L, enter master-password once and that's it for the current OSX login session. Will Passkey or FIDO or Yubikey improve this speed of interaction?

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#114
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bitwarden webvault infrastructure is a doomsday target. If it's compromised, no evidence of a client backdoor will exist except in the server logs. You can't avoid using it, because you need to sign into the webvault to configure 2FA. Want to change the encryption passphrase? Guess what, you need to use the webvault. Bitwarden's vault encryption is essentially reduced to the security model of TLS.

And? If you don't trust TLS then I assume you don't trust web banking, or purchasing anything over the internet for that matter. Might as well give up on technology and go find yourself a nice quiet pastoral life.

Following up, I find it funny that this old meme comment thought orders and banking are our most trusted activities, and not our communications and data storage.

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#115
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passkeys are definitely the future, and I think will eventually eliminate a lot of phishing attempts and other insecurity caused by passwords. I'm hoping that we will eventually see transferable, secure identities that you can use to log in anywhere, rather than having to constantly create account credentials for everything. As a side note, if you want to try out passkeys now and don't want to tie it to your device,…

That seems interesting. What's the license? I couldn't see that in the repo [1] 1. https://github.com/bulwarkid/bulwark-passkey

The actual 'brains' repo is [1], which is MIT licensed.

[1] https://github.com/bulwarkid/virtual-fido

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, the demo didn’t seem to work on my devices. Tried it on desktop Chrome and my Android phone (Galaxy S22); Chrome says that a "notification was sent" to the phone, but there’s nothing. Seems like it’s supposed to work wirelessly, but I didn’t have any success via a USB cable either. Android Chrome does react to it, and shows that it’s connected, but desktop Chrome’s dialog keeps just spinning until it times out…

Wireless is over BLE, so your motherboard needs to be recent enough to have it, or if you have one of those Intel PCIe wi-fi adapters, the USB2 cable should be plugged in to a header on the motherboard (the wifi functionality is pure PCIe, but for some reason Bluetooth is over USB).

It’s an Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX200, which should have BLE support; I use BLE game controllers with it all the time. But it’s weird that it doesn’t work with a USB cable either, even when using the motherboard headers. I’m on Linux (Fedora), not sure if that matters or not.

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#117
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been considering vaultwarden, question though. I assume bitwarden's implementation has been more thoroughly reviewed. Assuming there is a critical bug in vaultwarden, what is the severity/what information is exposed? Is it relatively safe even then because of the E2E?

As well as what sibling said about it being E2EE and just using a standard API for storage, there are awesome tools these days so you can (and I think should) lock down your instance fairly well. Now when I run services like that I access them exclusively via WireGuard or Nebula, no exposure to the public internet at all. It's reliable, dependable and performant enough to pretty much put everything inside of by defau…

Do you use tricks to get https (like it can be done with Tailscale) or do you not bother anymore and rely on the transport encryption layer solely (like wireguard)?

I’m in the process of moving towards putting stuff behind new vpn solutions (Tailscale/ Wireguard in my case). It does feel good to drop https though. Or does it really not matter? What do HNers think?

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MFA using an SMS is not secure. Why not? Is it that easy to intercept a SMS or is that just due to poor handling with some providers?

Yes it is. https://blog.mozilla.org/en/internet-culture/mozilla-explain...

But this comes down to bad security practices at the telco, doesn't it?

I don't know about other countries, but you can't even buy/activate SIM cards in Germany without "proper" identification through VideoIdent or another system where your passport is checked against. At least that's what I remember.

I'm not sure any type of "I've lost my SIM, please use this one" would work on German carriers without proper ID.

Moving numbers als requires some kind of paperwork, it's not that easy after all.

So... Is this a telco problem or a SMS problem?

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MFA using an SMS is not secure. Why not? Is it that easy to intercept a SMS or is that just due to poor handling with some providers?

Yep it is that easy, often all it takes is a suitably phrased "please give me control of this phone number" in a telco's support live chat

See the other comment, it looks like this problem boils down to very bad security practices at the telcos but not a general problem with SMS itself.

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#120
post #85

Am I the only one who just cannot STAND MFA? Having to get a notification text etc. Like what if I don’t want to give an app capability to notify my phone? What if I want something totally NOT connected to my phone? I just envision a future where there is some near-circular dependency of passwords/phrases/notifications/authenticators/keys/email verifications etc across different devices and services - the end result…

Passwords, credit card numbers, social security numbers, etc are old outdated technology that can't go away fast enough. They're unfixably insecure...identifying yourself to someone by giving your secret identifying information to them immediately allows them to impersonate you! We've had the technology to fix this problem for close to 50 years now: public-key cryptography. We can't get to a password-less world fast…

I’d think SSH (indirectly: git) and TLS would be more widespread applications of public key cryptography.
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