But, aren't you folks web2? • Hacker News Board

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#111

Post by kkielhofner » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 1:29 PM UTC

mjburgess wrote: post #4

For the first time my anger over crypto moves into genuine concern. Is an entire generation of young people experiencing a kind of "pokemonisation" of crypto well into early adulthood? In other words, is a generation of 20-somethings wasting the better part of that decade on this tech, in these scams? If so, this feels new (?). We're not talking about the chain-letter crazes of the 20s/30s, the housewife pyramid sche…

Very, very, very few people work in the cryptography or even blockchain aspects of any element of web3.

The overwhelming majority of dev in the space looks exactly like web2. You whip up an Express/Lambda/whatever API backend that (at it's most "blockchain") uses a library like web3.js to talk to a blockchain node from a commercial service provider via HTTP or websockets. More likely than that you go further up the stack and use a really easy to consume library[0] from your API provider and don't even really get exposed to the nitty-gritty blockchain methods exposed by a lower level library like web3.js. Literally import lib, provide your API key, and do things like:

  const nftsForOwner = await alchemy.nft.getNftsForOwner("0xshah.eth");

I find it fascinating to meet devs in the space who say they're a "blockchain developer" and after a tiny amount of conversation you realize there's no difference whatsoever between what they're doing and wiring up a backend + frontend solution to something like Square (or whatever).

So I agree with you completely - when these crypto companies or whatever start laying off left and right you can be certain the vast majority of the devs in the space can use what they've learned anywhere.

[0] - https://docs.alchemy.com/reference/nft-api-quickstart#alchem...

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#112

Post by red_trumpet » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

TimJRobinson wrote: post #98

I think the OP is missing what those kids actually desire when they say web3 - self sovereignty. They grew up in an era where a few big tech companies control most of their experiences, and you're completely locked into them unable to escape even if you hate the platform because that's where all your friends are. Web3 is where you can have one digital login owned by you that you can use for many services and you can…

> I think the OP is missing what those kids actually desire when they say web3 - self sovereignty.

You might be right, but do they actually achieve this?

> It's hosting your own website vs having a page on Facebook.

I mean, running your own E-Mail or Mastodon instance is self sourvereignty in the way you propose. But I've never heard anyone claiming this to be web3.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#113

Post by lupire » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

mjburgess wrote: post #4

For the first time my anger over crypto moves into genuine concern. Is an entire generation of young people experiencing a kind of "pokemonisation" of crypto well into early adulthood? In other words, is a generation of 20-somethings wasting the better part of that decade on this tech, in these scams? If so, this feels new (?). We're not talking about the chain-letter crazes of the 20s/30s, the housewife pyramid sche…

The more people go work on cryptocurrency, the less competition for other tech jobs.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#114

Post by teraflop » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 1:32 PM UTC

web3isgoing wrote: post #89

Zanfa wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as with anything web3/crypto, this example falls apart completely when you need to consider the reality of domain squatting, trademark issues, domain name theft etc. Cases where you need somebody (e.g. a court) to overrule code-is-law and thus invalidating the entire premise of putting it on the blockchain in the first place.

Why does a decentralized protocol need to be amenable to these disputes? Saying “we will have a jury of appointed authorities to manage disputes” defeats the point, and is what ENS tries to avoid. If apple.eth is held by a squatter, should courts be able to override the protocol to send it to trademark holder Apple? In the end this can get resolved by regular dispute mechanisms but without compromising decentralizati…

> If apple.eth is held by a squatter, should courts be able to override the protocol to send it to trademark holder Apple?

If the holder is using it maliciously to scam people by tricking them into thinking it's the real Apple, then yes! In that situation, revoking their ability to use the domain is a much better outcome for everybody except the scammer.

> In the end this can get resolved by regular dispute mechanisms but without compromising decentralization and integrity of the protocol.

But the Ethereum Name Service does not have any such dispute mechanism, by design.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#115

Post by lupire » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 1:34 PM UTC

csomar wrote: post #99

mjburgess wrote: post #4

For the first time my anger over crypto moves into genuine concern. Is an entire generation of young people experiencing a kind of "pokemonisation" of crypto well into early adulthood? In other words, is a generation of 20-somethings wasting the better part of that decade on this tech, in these scams? If so, this feels new (?). We're not talking about the chain-letter crazes of the 20s/30s, the housewife pyramid sche…

I had an interesting discussion with a young "developer" studying in "cyber-security". The guy was clearly out of his depth, and had a little idea about Internet security themes. He was struggling about finding an internship. I told him the market is still hot for tech people and security in general. His answer? "It's hard for me because I'm a person of color". I was a bit shocked there. He was just a bit browner tha…

"person of color" vs "white" isn't the same as colorism, it also includes other racial markers. Melania Trump is darks than many "black" "people of color".

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#116

Post by denton-scratch » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 1:34 PM UTC

andai wrote: post #51

jeswin wrote: post #34

This is not a commentary on the article itself - I don't have an opinion on it. Most people who have experienced the pre-2000s web can tell what Web 2.0 was. It was a cultural shift in how apps were designed and used, and while the term was vague you could actually tell the difference as a user (eg: encyclopedias v/s wikis). At that point people were similarly critical of the term Web 2.0, and they weren't entirely w…

Web 3.0 (Semantic Web) already failed a decade ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_3.0 So it annoys me that this new, unrelated thing has stolen its name. Though you it could certainly be argued that due to failing it didn't deserve a major version number.

Web 3.0 is not the same as web3.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#117

Post by lupire » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 1:35 PM UTC

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #35

mjburgess wrote: post #4

For the first time my anger over crypto moves into genuine concern. Is an entire generation of young people experiencing a kind of "pokemonisation" of crypto well into early adulthood? In other words, is a generation of 20-somethings wasting the better part of that decade on this tech, in these scams? If so, this feels new (?). We're not talking about the chain-letter crazes of the 20s/30s, the housewife pyramid sche…

Capitalism means that the best and the brightest are working on what makes the most money not on what society needs. However one should not overstate sociopaths. Lots of people are still going into healthcare or teaching because there's more to life than money.

Healthcare and teaching are seeing severe attrition.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#118

Post by lupire » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 1:37 PM UTC

TimJRobinson wrote: post #98

I think the OP is missing what those kids actually desire when they say web3 - self sovereignty. They grew up in an era where a few big tech companies control most of their experiences, and you're completely locked into them unable to escape even if you hate the platform because that's where all your friends are. Web3 is where you can have one digital login owned by you that you can use for many services and you can…

Yes that's the lie web3 sells, just like the perfume beer company and the company says drinking their swill will make women want to have sex with them.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#119

Post by jeroenhd » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 1:37 PM UTC

Communitivity wrote: post #96

Yes, there are a lot of scams in the crypto space. Yes, the terminology and hype make the SOA craze look like a toddler's tea. However, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Some of the underlying technologies are valid, valuable, and might just play into whatever is in the future of the networking. The technologies I am talking about are: * Distributed Hash Tables (DHTs) * Distributed Ledgers * Abstracted di…

Many of these are already in use. A PGP key is a decentralized identifier, for example, as is a self-signed certificate you load into your browser for TLS auth. WebAuthn and friends are the next step for those types of identifiers.

Torrents and other file sharing systems have used DHTs and merkle trees before Bitcoin even existed. XMPP had decentralized and distributed communication.

I'd argue that smart contracts are new, though they're not inherently linked to currencies necessarily. I don't know any practical use for them outside the cryptocurrency/NFT/blockchain speculation niche, but they're a cool invention.

The prediction market that these new currencies have created are little more than the latest version of a tulip mania.

These monetized cryptography projects often manage to combine very cool software design elements but they rarely come up with something new that's useful outside of their business model.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#120

Post by hedgehog » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 1:38 PM UTC

bawolff wrote: post #97

greybeardednyc wrote: post #88

I definitely get the whole “web3” is useless argument for a lot of the cases it’s been proposed but like any new technology I think it may find valid use cases somewhere down the line. One of the few uses for which I am interested is “web3” identity - being able to keep ownership of my identity/credentials. Using, for example, a wallet to sign a message proving I own an address, I can build apps that don’t require me…

I dont think web3 has really made any improvements in this area, so you got to ask what's different now. Using public keys to log into things has been forever. It caught on with ssh (1995), it failed with client-certificates aka mTLS (1996). Zero knowledge proofs also havent really caught on. And its not a new idea. The Fiat–Shamir heuristic is from 1986. Anyways, i dont really think web3 has added anything. Most of…

Key-as-identity has a lot of problems and I don't think that model really works for most use cases. On the other hand I'm optimistic about being able to rework identity in the spirit what poster above describes. I've been around long enough to see the long arcs of experimentation and refinement that happen before technologies reach adoption. As an example widespread adoption of end-to-end encrypted messaging, biometrics, and hardware roots of trust took a while but that's here now in ordinary consumer gear. I could have looked at low adoption of PGPfone and and drawn the conclusion that encrypted video would never work but that would have been wrong.