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India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#111

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

Aunche wrote: post #64
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have 300% debt to GDP compared to 84% for India. We'll never know how much more advanced India would be if they invested as much in infrastructure.

> They also have 300% debt to GDP compared to 84% for India. You're comparing the total debt of China with the national debt of India.

India doesn't have "private" corporations which are just an extension of the state.

All the mega banks in China are indistinguishable from the state - you're looking at 100% of debt to GDP on their balance sheets alone.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#112

Post by rhaway84773 »

endisneigh wrote: post #43
mensetmanusman wrote: post #15

Such an awesome accomplishment. Also, it’s interestingly a huge black eye to the CCP: news of this Indian accomplishment will be censored in China, because it proves that nations can progress without forced-sterilization/-abortion/-1-child-policy/authoritarianism/ etc.

Why would it be a black eye to the ccp when they’ve lifted twice as many from poverty as India? And far higher growth, gdp per capita, etc. weird comment https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/l...

Because the CCP’s (more specifically Xi Jinping’s) entire thesis is that democracies are incapable of producing good outcomes.

A lot of the move towards authoritarianism that we’ve been seeing in the world has been driven by the success of the “China model”.

If India is successful to a similar degree as China, that shatters this belief, especially since there are very significant questions about the Chinese economy and how stable it is. A lot of the numbers appear to be made up in a way India simply cannot do.

And if Democracies can achieve success, Chinese citizens themselves may consider it as the better alternative as it might indicate that China’s economic success was less the result of the CCP and more because the Chinese government chose to move towards a Western capitalist economic system a couple of decades before India.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#113

Post by dc-programmer »

G3rn0ti wrote: post #49

Technically, India did not do this. The people lifted themselves out of poverty because, finally, India‘s government had granted them enough freedom to pursue their happiness.

Economic freedom follows rule of law. And enforcing rule of law is not a passive activity. Free markets are only possible when governments take an active and benevolent role in society

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#114

Post by vishnugupta »

as1mov wrote: post #52
aerovistae wrote: post #13

Interested in comments from anyone who lives in India or has experience/familiarity with it as to whether reality on the ground matches the rosy picture painted in the article.

I can give me 2 cents (or paisa hah), apologies if it gets a little sentimental, I am drunk. Looks like I've ascended on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Grew up in a poor family with my dad as the sole earner taking care of my mother and 3 kids. Mum used to do minor clothes repair work for neighbours for some extra money, but it wasn't much. One of my first memories is waddling along to the ration shop (cheap subsid…

As a fellow Indian who has had a similar trajectory as yours, thank you for sharing your story.

The point you said about Infosys paying salary that is good enough to escape poverty trap can’t be emphasized enough. Infosys, TCS, and similar companies gave lifted hundreds of thousands of families out of poverty trap.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#115

Post by burntbridge »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #15

Such an awesome accomplishment. Also, it’s interestingly a huge black eye to the CCP: news of this Indian accomplishment will be censored in China, because it proves that nations can progress without forced-sterilization/-abortion/-1-child-policy/authoritarianism/ etc.

Forced sterilization is something India did do.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#116

Post by anthropodie »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #92
anthropodie wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those millions who moved to middle class are also helping the layer below them. These lifted households are spending their wealth on house helps, local grocery stores, taxis/autos and a whole lot of other local businesses. This trickle down effect then boosts development in cities where these IT hubs are located. Even more students then want to join these IT companies and enjoy the lifestyle of their seniors thus con…

You seem to be close to the situation. Do you think Indian Walmart is a future inevitability?

We actually have D-Mart and they are quite huge but not comparable to Walmart. These are present at multiple locations in tier-1 cities but are hardly present in tier-2 cities. The thing is even though these are very popular they are not shutting down local shops in the region that they are located. The sheer demand is so high that people get things from local shops instead of standing in long queues at D-mart.

To answer your question, yes Walmart can happen but it has to be ready for some serious competition because other than D-mart other big player JioMart backed by Reliance has entered this space recently.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#118

Post by roflc0ptic »

richard___ wrote: post #28
mensetmanusman wrote: post #15

Such an awesome accomplishment. Also, it’s interestingly a huge black eye to the CCP: news of this Indian accomplishment will be censored in China, because it proves that nations can progress without forced-sterilization/-abortion/-1-child-policy/authoritarianism/ etc.

Why do so many people on HN hate on China? What's your relationship with Chinese people in your personal life?

My relationship with Chinese people is great. I have a chinese ex, whose mom is hyper critical of the CCP and hates communism. They’re not Han chinese, they’re one of the less desirable ethnicities, and they didn’t feel well treated. Anyways.

Authoritarian regimes are bad. The fact that this authoritarian regime has mongoloid/asiatic facial features is irrelevant. I hated GWB’s expansion of the security state and two senseless middle eastern wars, I hated Obama killing American citizens without trial, and I hated Trump’s… everything, basically, but admittedly withdrawing from Afghanistan was p cool. Stopped clocks etc.

Anyways it’s totally consistent with wanting a just world to also hate the largest authoritarian regime in that world. This “but what if it’s because you’re racist?!?!” line is an absurdity

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#119

Post by zuminator »

morbidious wrote: post #39
factsarelolz wrote: post #21

Thanks to the United States of America wether it be through legal or illegal means.

Yes, thank you America for crippling your own economy for the sake of India. Please give Biden the peace prize for his humanitarian efforts.

The article is talking about India's economic development during the period 2005-2021. How you mangle that into an anti-Biden remark is bizarre.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#120

Post by dirtyid »

anthropodie wrote: post #79
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #3

One of the best things about living in India is watching families move from lower or lower-middle class to middle-class status. Usually, all it takes is someone from the family landing a white-collar job. While the tech bodyshops (TCS, Infosys, etc.) might have a poor reputation in the US, these companies have been absolutely critical in helping move tens of millions into middle-class respectability.

Those millions who moved to middle class are also helping the layer below them. These lifted households are spending their wealth on house helps, local grocery stores, taxis/autos and a whole lot of other local businesses. This trickle down effect then boosts development in cities where these IT hubs are located. Even more students then want to join these IT companies and enjoy the lifestyle of their seniors thus con…

I think in a few years India will find focusing on middle class is not enough. There's finite demand for domestic+outsourceable white collar jobs for 1.4B internal market + ~400M English speakers around the world. PRC has 10s of millions of white collar jobs + 100s of millions of manufacturing that pays better than trickle down housesitting, but there's still 100s of millions more stuck in informal economy while both countries are stuck with another few 100s of millions of subsistent farmers because keeping agriculture low tech is an essential jobs program. Even by PRC standards, India is hyper Deng's "let some get rich first" scheme that's going to cause long term uneven development issues.
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