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To get kids into science, just do it

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Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#111

Post by toddm »

JamesianP wrote: post #99
toddm wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to get back into my chosen field, specifically in computational chemistry and drug design. It's rough sledding as they say, since I am an older candidate who is hardly up to speed on where things are now vs. circa 2005. For the past 18 years - since I left academia - I've been bouncing around as a "data scientist," working in many fields but not what I really want to do and/or am actually good at doing.

In my experience it's almost always the case with industry that you end up in some adjacent niche that isn't quite exactly what you want to do, even if you never leave the field of your schooling. By that I mean it may be a lot easier to get into computational chemistry for something other than drug design. It's a weird time now with software eating everything and many science jobs asking for PhD in or Computer Scien…

@JamesianP - You're exactly right about the heady requirement lift. And there are plenty of widely-defined computational chemistry jobs, especially when you throw in the bio- prefix.

As for the adjacent niche bit, right again as you are about experience. My time as a so-called "data scientist" was never really the best fit, and I could never compete with the folks who do Kaggle competitions and have a real passion for AI/ML (which, to me, is one of the defining points of "data science" today).

However, I've logged a lot of time over the past 30+ years in front of the terminal, so fingers crossed!

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#112

Post by eggsmediumrare »

humanrebar wrote: post #65
c7DJTLrn wrote: post #63

To get kids into science, make the education system better. Less memorisation, more practical work. Accelerate things for those interested and remove those that aren't. I wanted to be a chemical engineer or pharmacologist but got so bored that I moved on to something else. Now I fiddle with code and do nothing of real value to society. At least I get paid well I supppose.

Lots of code is valuable to society. Find a product you believe in more if that's the problem. And a lot of software is very valuable but taken for granted. To pick an arbitrary example, word processing removed all sorts of even less "valuable" work from the world: mailing thing around, extra printing, photocopying, physical filing, transcription services, and all sorts of related rote secretarial duties. Those jobs…

Those jobs are gone and now those people drive ubers and and barely scrape by

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#113

Post by retrac »

I remember my first "real" science experiment in school. We determined the saturation point of salt in water depending on temperature. Our teacher somehow managed to get us into a spirit where it was as if we were the first people to attempt to measure this. Nature would reveal its secrets to us!

It was just about the perfect experiment for 11 year olds, probably. We could understand what we were trying to find out and it seemed something that might actually be worth knowing! At the end of the class, would our measurements correspond with the figures in the book? If not, why might they not? And the Bunsen burner gets to come out, too! Very exciting. I think it might have been the first time I realized, oh, I could actually determine this myself, if I had to, using a scientific approach.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#114

Post by aqsalose »

rdtwo wrote: post #2

Why would you want to get kids into science? It don’t pay for shit and career/life prospects are grim. Grind out a phd for 80k starting salary? Hard pass

I suspect interacting with the real physical world and its realities and to realize one can affect it would be good, no matter what career they'd pick later. Picking a career in software development has been a good choice for bright kids for several decades now. In the long term view, the past is full of "good career choices for bright kids" that at some point no longer were not.

The physical world is not going anywhere.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#115

Post by ProjectArcturis »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #85
ProjectArcturis wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What moral implications? Quants at RenTech are basically just card counters in the biggest casino in the world.

I came to the conclusion that most likely, taking the job was morally neutral- barely hurting nor helping anyone outside the firm (not specifically RT- don't want to out myself); but that on a larger scale our country is rotting because our most capable thinkers are doing this instead of anything morally positive (solving healthcare, solving the climate crisis, leading the country), and I didn't want to participate i…

Fair. It's really a shame that society incentivizes its smartest to go into finance rather than a positive-sum endeavor. If it's any reassurance, the world has pretty much always been this way.

And I'm pretty surprised everyone you met was pleasant -- that was certainly not my experience at a hedge fund.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#116

Post by JamesianP »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #39
chriskanan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a scientist, I'd say this claim doesn't hold true for many scientific disciplines. I know scientists working in biopharma earning over $1M per year. That said, I do think the salary mentioned is accurate as a starting salary in academia for a research faculty position (tenure track starting salary in USA is ~50% higher though), but academia pays much worse than industry. You give up salary for huge amounts of auto…

Probability distributions are the difference. There are people earning $200k, $500k, and $1M+ in many fields. The probability of getting there (and quality of life while getting there and after you get there), are the important bits of information. For example, if you have to grind out my whole 20s (some of the best years for the human body) doing dissertations and working 80+ hour weeks for near minimum wage (per ho…

grad school wasn't a grind in my experience. Definitely easier and more fun than a real job, apart from the sparse high-stress deadlines of course. I think that's generally the norm in the US (except in chemistry I hear?)

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#117

Post by wheelinsupial »

lordnacho wrote: post #109
fastneutron wrote: post #32

To the people posting about having good chemistry sets as a kid: what were these sets and where did you/your parents get them? Where are the good sources today? Everything I remember growing up in the 90s was pretty dumbed down at best, and if you wanted to order any of the interesting chemicals or equipment, you needed a company or school letterhead with a PO account. Things got better in the 00s when eBay was still…

How about a virtual chemistry set? Saves me from cleaning up. Plus the kid can do dangerous stuff. Does it exist?

Maybe? https://www.labster.com/

I think I heard a podcast interview with them that sounded like they were doing interesting work. Not sure if it's really aimed at kids.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#118

Post by deskamess »

toddm wrote: post #110
deskamess wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the requirements (degree, etc) for computational chemistry and drug design? I have a young one who is looking at medicine in general.

@deskamess - I believe a Master's is the minimum buy-in, and Ph.D. is preferred. My Ph.D. area is quite narrowly in theoretical chemical physics, but was all heavy computation and focused on quantum and classical dynamics. The areas of study are going to be computational chemistry, pharmaceutical chemistry, cheminformatics, or something closely related to those. Whether you work in a lab or in front of a computer dep…

Thank you for the detailed response and your offer to share more. Let me start with the resources you have already shared so I have a decent background before I come back with questions.

Wish you success in your efforts to get back into the industry.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#119

Post by walleeee »

rdtwo wrote: post #2

Why would you want to get kids into science? It don’t pay for shit and career/life prospects are grim. Grind out a phd for 80k starting salary? Hard pass

an 80k starting salary is hardly grim and if you happen to become a decent scientist or technician along the way there is usually work to be found, but yes, the phd mill incentive matrix is a blight and demonstrates broader misalignments in microcosm

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#120

Post by dislikedtom2 »

flybrand wrote: post #24
dislikedtom2 wrote: post #3

I remember being interested in sciences as a kid, but every time I asked for a chemistry kit or anything practical, I just got books and documentaries. Don't be those parents.

Which chemistry kit do you wish you’d received?

https://lcamtuf.substack.com/p/a-requiem-for-amateur-chemist...
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