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NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

iapps.courts.state.ny.us

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Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#111

Post by alasdair_ »

RC_ITR wrote: post #30
jakogut wrote: post #10

Something I've been wondering in recent cases where courts are overturning recent government action, whether unconstitutional bills passed into law, or unconstitutional executive actions that overstep authority, is where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place? The state of New York famously responded to the outcome of NYSRPA v. Bruen, which overturned the defacto ban on concealed carry, by decl…

>where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place You've hit the core problem of society/government that countless generations have tried to obfuscate via an academic body that implies that social interactions can be studied/understood like natural sciences. At the core, all social structure is built on the threat of violence - Commit non-violent white collar crime? Show up to court, because if you…

> At the core, all social structure is built on the threat of violence

Put another way, people with nuclear weapons don’t need to pay parking tickets.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#112

Post by version_five »

busymom0 wrote: post #107
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't, that's the point. The mandate presumably would have been legal if Adams hadn't added those arbitrary exemptions.

Doubt it. The court also said the following (court towards the end indicates that the mandate didn’t make sense even when the order was issued): > “”Being vaccinated does not prevent an individual from contracting or transmitting Covid-19. As of the day of this Decision, CDC guidelines regarding quarantine and isolation are the same for vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. The Petitioners should not have been ter…

No post body was provided.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#113

Post by colinmhayes »

bananapear wrote: post #28
tptacek wrote: post #20

This is a confusing headline. The judgement here is in NY state court, and pertains to employees of and in the City of New York, which enacted a vaccine requirement for employees of the city and later private employers in the city. Months later, Eric Adams was elected mayor of NYC, and he issued an executive order exempting athletes, performers, and artists from the mandate. Petitioners sued, saying that the mandate…

Why would it make sense to exempt those people but not, say, firefighters?

Because athletes and performers are irreplaceable and bring in tourist revenue which the city wants. Firefighters are more easily replaceable and have no effect on tourism. Having competing priorities is common enough, I don't see what doesn't make sense here. The city wants everyone to be vaccinated but it also wants broadway and basketball to be happening more, so they came up with this policy.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#114

Post by Spooky23 »

spfzero wrote: post #47
tptacek wrote: post #20

This is a confusing headline. The judgement here is in NY state court, and pertains to employees of and in the City of New York, which enacted a vaccine requirement for employees of the city and later private employers in the city. Months later, Eric Adams was elected mayor of NYC, and he issued an executive order exempting athletes, performers, and artists from the mandate. Petitioners sued, saying that the mandate…

Not merely arbitrary. From the decision: "This Court aggress that the Commissioner cannot enact a term of employment on City employees and has exceeded his scope of authority..."

That definitely plays into the sabotage thread. Any competent corp counsel would have been able to navigate around this issue.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#115

Post by Rebelgecko »

jesuscript wrote: post #108
bananapear wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it make sense to exempt those people but not, say, firefighters?

Because it doesn’t matter who has Covid in a fire.

Dunno how it is in NY, but in my city, the fire department spends way more time on paramedic duties than on actually fighting fires (around 40 EMS calls for every fire call). IMO if you're getting a ride to the hospital from someone it matters if they have COVID. And even though the vaccines don't guarantee that you won't get infected, the government does have an interest in preventing severe infections. COVID was the #1 killer of first responders

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#116

Post by alasdair_ »

phpisthebest wrote: post #60
lkrubner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christopher H. Achen & Larry M. Bartels wrote a whole book showing that voters do not keep track of what elected officials do, and so politicians are not punished for bad behavior, see excerpt here: https://demodexio.substack.com/p/longer-elected-terms-lead-t...

This is also shown in polling data, where congress on the whole has an approval rating of less than 10%, yet most years the incumbent is reelected That statistic alone has me questioning if democracy is a good system

Democracy is fine. Representative democracy can go to hell.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#117

Post by Aunche »

RC_ITR wrote: post #30
jakogut wrote: post #10

Something I've been wondering in recent cases where courts are overturning recent government action, whether unconstitutional bills passed into law, or unconstitutional executive actions that overstep authority, is where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place? The state of New York famously responded to the outcome of NYSRPA v. Bruen, which overturned the defacto ban on concealed carry, by decl…

>where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place You've hit the core problem of society/government that countless generations have tried to obfuscate via an academic body that implies that social interactions can be studied/understood like natural sciences. At the core, all social structure is built on the threat of violence - Commit non-violent white collar crime? Show up to court, because if you…

>Reject Capitalism? Starve to death on the streets.

What's "rejecting capitalism?" You can't blow up the NYSE, but most everything else is fair game. Your employer isn't going to care if you reject capitalism so long as you get your work done. If you don't want to work under a capitalist, you can join join or start your own cooperative. If you can't do that, you can be an independent contractor. If you don't have the motivation to do that, you can fall back on the charity of others.

>Like look at Elon Musk - his whole deal is proving that there are no bad consequences to doing whatever he wants

Musk got ousted as board chair at at Tesla, and was forced to buy Twitter at a very overpriced valuation.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#119

Post by chrisseaton »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #115
jesuscript wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it doesn’t matter who has Covid in a fire.

Dunno how it is in NY, but in my city, the fire department spends way more time on paramedic duties than on actually fighting fires (around 40 EMS calls for every fire call). IMO if you're getting a ride to the hospital from someone it matters if they have COVID. And even though the vaccines don't guarantee that you won't get infected, the government does have an interest in preventing severe infections. COVID was th…

> the fire department spends way more time on paramedic duties than on actually fighting fires

Why does the fire department do medical stuff in the US? Why isn’t it medical people providing paramedics? Seems like something that should be left to professionals?

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#120

Post by jrochkind1 »

nwiswell wrote: post #103
czinck wrote: post #5

Because it's confusing: the NY Supreme Court is just a trial court, it's not at all like the US Supreme Court. The top appellate court is called the Court of Appeals. It's called "supreme" because it has general jurisdiction, as opposed to things like traffic court.

That is bizarre. Most states call them "superior" courts. Supreme implies, well, the superlative authority, and it is definitely not.

Apparently Maryland also names it's courts confusingly, which I only know because on the ballot in a couple weeks is a constitutional amendment to change it to be what you expect.

(and googling it just now to give you details, I arrived at Ballotpedia which said Maryland and New York are the only two states that don't call their top court "supreme". Maryland for not much longer probably, as ammendments on the ballot always seem to pass here. But even Maryland doesn't call a different court supreme!).

> Question 1 would rename the Maryland Court of Appeals to the Supreme Court of Maryland and the Maryland Court of Special Appeals to the Appellate Court of Maryland. It would change the name of a Judge of the Court of Appeals to be a Justice of the Supreme Court of Maryland and the name of the Chief Judge of the Court of Appeals to be the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Maryland. It would also change the gendered language to gender-neutral in the articles of the Maryland Constitution that would be amended.[2]

> Maryland and New York are the only states that do not refer to their state's top court as the supreme court

—https://ballotpedia.org/Maryland_Question_1,_Renaming_of_the...

(OK, so currently in Maryland you start your appeal at the "court of special appeals", and if you don't like the finding you can appeal further to the "court of appeals"? The Court of Appeals is a higher court than the Court of Special Appeals? I'd say that's almost as confusing as New York, although maybe not quite).

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