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Kanye West is buying Parler

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Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#111

Post by shafyy »

mariusor wrote: post #109
shafyy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do we need an absolute free speech platform? What good does it do? This is exactly the right question to ask. I'm convinced that it's not possible to have constructive "free speech" social media platform. There's always the need for moderation.

I think moderation should be about the words that are being said, not the ideas that are being discussed. A free speech platform should allow a wide range of topics, but it's not expected to stand for all manner of trolling and bad faith argumentation. I think that conflating the two is tripping a lot of people up in the debate about the topic.

I disagree. There are limits to what ideas constitute free speech in many modern countries. As an extreme example, an idea that puts forward genocide as acceptable form of action should never be allowed under "free speech", even if it's said with nice words.

This and other examples are ruled under law in many developed countries.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#112

Post by luckylion »

_djo_ wrote: post #108
luckylion wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nevertheless obvious (although not to everyone) absurd, blatant lies and manipulations shouldn't be covered by the free speech umbrella. "Capitalism is the problem", "modern employment is wage slavery". These are absurd, blatant lies meant to manipulate. Would you have statements like that removed?

But how can you seriously compare a statement like 'capitalism is the problem', which is an opinion about how society chooses to organise itself, to bigotry and prejudice against what people were born as, including anti-semitism? It's self evident that there should be separate standards for that.

It's absurd to call capitalism the problem for e.g. pollution (which is a typical example of 'capitalism is the problem' statements), which every economic system faced (and the communist systems handled much worse than the capitalist), not to mention comparing slavery to 21st century employment in the West. The people uttering those statements know that, they're neither stupid nor children who haven't yet gotten an education, so they're lying, and they're doing so to manipulate.

A similar absurd lie that is intended to manipulate: Russia is being attacked by NATO and only defends itself against the fascists in Ukraine.

> It's self evident that there should be separate standards for that.

Sure, but they shouldn't be based on whether something is true or wrong, absurd or plausible, or said with intent to manipulate or inform.

Better criteria are required, or we'll be back to Twitter's stance of "this instance is against TOS, and that same thing isn't, because we feel like the author didn't mean it the same way", which comes down to "there are no rules other than don't do something/be someone I dislike".

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#113

Post by evgen »

jsemrau wrote: post #15

Given that Parler is primarily associated with alt-right users, this purchase is quite amusing. Yet it underlines how the right to speak freely is under threat online and I am not sure if Billionaires further centralizing access is the right way forward.

Is it too surprising if I tell you that Candace Owen's husband is the CEO of Parler? Yes, the same Candace Owens that has been advising Kanye West and appeared with him in the matching White Lives Matter t-shirt...

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#114

Post by dmix »

tgv wrote: post #34
mrtksn wrote: post #11

Musk and everyone else is right that we do need a platform with free speech. The only problem is that all those free speech advocates are actually NIMBY's when it comes to free speech. I have been following self proclaimed free speech absolutists(because I too, believe in free speech but don't believe it exists) and they are totally not the kind of people that say "I hate what you say but I will die defending your ri…

Why do we need an absolute free speech platform? What good does it do? > The only somewhat free place I've seen is 4Chan but it contains so much toxicity, that's its barely bearable. Sounds like a hint to me. There are more free speech sites, e.g. saidit.net. I would wholeheartedly recommend staying away from it: it's a cesspool, like the other reddit wannabes. Voat also comes to mind. Freedom of speech on such sites…

When only the rejects use the sites of course it's going to be full of bad content. That doesn't mean there isn't value in free speech being better valued on mainstream platforms.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#116

Post by nailer »

mrtksn wrote: post #11

Musk and everyone else is right that we do need a platform with free speech. The only problem is that all those free speech advocates are actually NIMBY's when it comes to free speech. I have been following self proclaimed free speech absolutists(because I too, believe in free speech but don't believe it exists) and they are totally not the kind of people that say "I hate what you say but I will die defending your ri…

> All those free speech advocates are actually NIMBY's when it comes to free speech.

Can you give examples?

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#117

Post by tptacek »

This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chunk of what he said was edited out and later leaked; the "people at the Gap" knew about Uvalde, Kanye is now a Black Hebrew Israelite, &c. He's quite evidently sick, and these Parler people are scamming him.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#119

Post by jonathanyc »

mrtksn wrote: post #11

Musk and everyone else is right that we do need a platform with free speech. The only problem is that all those free speech advocates are actually NIMBY's when it comes to free speech. I have been following self proclaimed free speech absolutists(because I too, believe in free speech but don't believe it exists) and they are totally not the kind of people that say "I hate what you say but I will die defending your ri…

I don't like how "I'm a free speech absolutist" has become "I want to force you to read my toxic rants, even when you try to get away from me." You yourself say 4chan is "barely bearable."

What free speech has meant historically is "I don't believe the government should be able to criminalize certain kinds of speech." It never meant "I am entitled to insert garbage into someone else's newspaper or book" until people started misappropriating the term.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#120

Post by ch4s3 »

benwad wrote: post #106
guerrilla wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), "Some, but not all [Black Hebrew Israelites], are outspoken anti-Semites and racists." As of December 2019, the Southern Poverty Law Center "lists 144 Black Hebrew Israelite organizations as black separatist hate groups because of their antisemitic and anti-white beliefs". Tom Metzger, a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, once remarked to the Southern Poverty Law…

I think one key difference between the BHI and the KKK is that the BHI never killed anyone or carried out any terrorist attacks.

A man associated with the BHI killed 3 people at a Kosher supermarket in New Jersey in December of 2019[1]. That said, they aren't doing this in any organized fashion.

[1] https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/110723/documents/...

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