From the HN guidelines: > please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize I'm finding myself disappointed with the application of guidelines here. The title has been changed to a completely made up headline, differing from the original, which is editorializing. It's the second time this happens in the past 24 hours - yesterday the ".. you idiot" part was removed from a blog post…
Effect of Colonoscopy Screening on Risks of Colorectal Cancer and Related Death
111–120 of 205 posts
Re: Effect of Colonoscopy Screening on Risks of Colorectal Cancer and Related Death
#112Don’t be so afraid of death. It’s not that bad. Really.
Source: survived an NDE. Was not my time was told, but did get a great tour of the afterlife. Don’t worry so much.
And treat strangers with kindness, they were very insistent on that. They keep score. Heaven or Hell. It’s your decision.
:-)
Re: Effect of Colonoscopy Screening on Risks of Colorectal Cancer and Related Death
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with the title is that it might lead individuals to believe they shouldn't bother with getting a colonoscopy. You can't conclude that from this study at all. If your doctor recommends you to get one, you probably should. The study answers a question pertaining public health policy (should we invite everyone in some age group for a colonoscopy?). It does not answer any individual health/treatment/screening…
> The problem with the title is that it might lead individuals to believe they shouldn't bother with getting a colonoscopy. You can't conclude that from this study at all. If your doctor recommends you to get one, you probably should. The problem with your doctor's recommendation is that doctors recommend colonoscopy based on age, not whether you have any factors that might indicate colon cancer. I have no cancer of…
That's not completely true. As a Crohn's Disease sufferer, by doctor has been making me get them since I was a teenager. The indications are high for me. For "normal" people, the general wisdom (apparently based on intuition more than any quantitative analysis) has been that the risks catch up with the general population around 50.
Re: Effect of Colonoscopy Screening on Risks of Colorectal Cancer and Related Death
#114> When the investigators compared just the 42% of participants in the invited group who actually showed up for a colonoscopy to the control group, they saw about a 30% reduction in colon cancer risk and a 50% reduction in colon cancer death. I’m really confused by this data. First of all, are they testing the efficacy of colonoscopy or the efficacy of inviting people to colonoscopy? And then how is the former group’s…
The gold standard is the invitation. Imagine a study where you try to get one group of people to exercise, and you leave the other alone as a control group. Imagine you find that everyone who actually does the exercise lives much longer. This might be due to the exercise, or it could be that exercise doesn't work but healthier more responsible people followed through with the exercise. And the being healthier and mor…
The control group was 50% of the population who didn't get an invitation.
The experimental group was 50% of the population who got an invitation for colonoscopy, but turned out to be subdivided into ~40% "health conscious" who actually followed up on the procedure, and ~60% who ignored it.
Presumably there's a corresponding ~40% "health conscious" component of the control group, but this experiment had no method for identifying them.
If the study only looked at that ~40% subset of the experimental group, as opposed to the entire group who received invitations, then they could no longer compare them to the control group.
Re: Effect of Colonoscopy Screening on Risks of Colorectal Cancer and Related Death
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not what it means at all. The question here is a question that the medical establishment is trying to answer: namely, "What can we, as the medical establishment do, to reduce deaths from colon cancer?" For a long time, the answer has been, "Invite people to take colonscopies". What the data here appears to show is that the action, "Invite people to take colonoscopies" doesn't actually reduce deaths from colon…
> I guess I do agree that the headline is likely to be counterproductive. What the data might show is that the most effective thing you as an individual can do is to be the kind of person who takes colonoscopies when invited. The unfortunate effect it might have is to make more people into the kind of people who don't take colonoscopies when invited. Agreed. Except the most effective thing you can do as an individual…
So we have two hypotheses here:
1. Having the colonoscopy is the thing that reduces deaths from colon cancer
2. Having the colonoscopy correlates to some other factor, X; and it's actually X which reduces the deaths from colon cancer.
X, for instance, could be a high willingness / ability to see the doctor when you experience early symptoms of colon cancer. That is, the more willing you are to go to the doctor when you start to have early symptoms of colon cancer, the more likely you are to survive it; and the more willing/able you are to go to the doctor when you have early symptoms of colon cancer, the more willing/able you are to have a colonoscopy.
What evidence do you have to believe that #1 is true, rather than #2?
Because if #1 is the case, the medical system should push hard on colonoscopies. But if #2 is the case, pushing colonoscopies might be a red herring. In fact, it might be counterproductive -- I've heard that colonoscopies are unpleasant; if you pressure people who don't like doctors into having a colonoscopy, and they have a terrible experience, then when they experience early symptoms of colon cancer, they may be more likely to procrastinate to avoid having another one. Rather, if #2 is the case, the medical system should try find out what can be done to make people more willing / able to get early medical care.
Re: Effect of Colonoscopy Screening on Risks of Colorectal Cancer and Related Death
#116Perhaps it was oversold, but a 20% reduction still seems significant.
Re: Effect of Colonoscopy Screening on Risks of Colorectal Cancer and Related Death
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is nothing wrong with the title. The study failed to find a reduction in death rate despite lowering the incidence of cancer, and that is the center of the piece. It goes into detail of why this is surprising. The study authors were interviewed and agreed. The reporting actually adds a lot of context that you would never get from a link to a random study. Like, for example, how it is called the “gold standard”…
That is incorrect. The title is completely wrong. "Study failed to find a reduction" _does not equal_ "There wasn't a reduction". From the abstract: "The risk of death from colorectal cancer was 0.28% in the invited group and 0.31% in the usual-care group (risk ratio, 0.90; 95% CI, 0.64 to 1.16)" Look at the confidence interval. This study was both consistent with a 36% reduction in deaths or a 16% increase in deaths…
Re: Effect of Colonoscopy Screening on Risks of Colorectal Cancer and Related Death
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
American health insurance really screws the pooch here. If you go for a colonoscopy without a previous fecal testing, it is a diagnostic procedure that is fully covered by your insurance without triggering deductible and copay. However, if you go for fecal testing first and then they find something suspicious that warrants a colonoscopy, it is no linger considered diagnostic (you have a legitimate problem now) and de…
You are complaining about the rare situation where someone gets fecal scanning first (and I agree this leads to perverse incentives)... But here's what the real racket is... American healthcare considers the colonoscopy preventative so the exam is covered... but if they see even a single polyp and decide to cut it off to get checked whether it is benign or not, that is not preventative but is diagnostic and thus is n…
Re: Effect of Colonoscopy Screening on Risks of Colorectal Cancer and Related Death
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
American health insurance really screws the pooch here. If you go for a colonoscopy without a previous fecal testing, it is a diagnostic procedure that is fully covered by your insurance without triggering deductible and copay. However, if you go for fecal testing first and then they find something suspicious that warrants a colonoscopy, it is no linger considered diagnostic (you have a legitimate problem now) and de…
You're not really wrong, but you're using the wrong terms which is extremely confusing. https://www.cancer.org/cancer/colon-rectal-cancer/detection-... For asymptomatic people without abnormal stool, colon cancer tests are called "screening," never "diagnostic." "Screening" is covered without cost sharing. Colonoscopy, fecal tests, etc. >But if you have a screening test other than colonoscopy and the result is positi…
Re: Effect of Colonoscopy Screening on Risks of Colorectal Cancer and Related Death
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Death rate" != "Cancer Rate." Cancer is much more treatable, these days. I had a friend that just underwent seven months of chemo for colorectal cancer. Looks like he'll be fine, but it was Stage IV, when it was discovered. Had a couple of surgeries, and radiation. The chemo was the worst, though. He channeled Uncle Fester, and this was a fairly robust, somewhat overweight chap. So he would not go in the "death" col…
I guess the question is if the scan makes a difference in intensity of treatment, if people who got a colonoscopy had fewer surgeries or fewer/less radiation. It doesn't say, I think? It's not at all obvious it would. (In general, one would think people who got the colonoscopy got more treatment -- in this case despite having no lower a death rate -- but perhaps it does not include as much intense treatment).
That may have had something to do with him not getting a gerbillcam until he started having symptoms.
I will say his treatment wasn't fun, at all, although he'll be OK, in the long run (but chemo never leaves you the same).