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Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

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Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#111

Post by jazzyjackson »

kenjackson wrote: post #70
mpweiher wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. People rightly reject these "principles" as incorrect and both morally and pragmatically reprehensible.

How is the principle incorrect? It’s a truth like evolution. You can’t fix past discrimination without future discrimination, in most cases. That is something you can model quite nicely mathematically. The question is just if it is reprehensible to do so. Or if there are times when it is more or less reprehensible.

> can’t fix past discrimination

it's not the result of discrimination that's immoral, it's the discrimination

the "fix" is to stop discriminating

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#112

Post by yathaid »

"Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable."

Can someone ELI5 what is this conflict between truth and social justice Haidt refers to?

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#113

Post by jazzyjackson »

busterarm wrote: post #66
zozbot234 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because what often passes for equity/diversity/inclusion in these contexts is the farthest thing from what would be truly equitable or inclusive. True diversity is not fostered by EDI goals, these are purely about enforcing conformity. And dangerous conformity at that - many people ITT have pointed out that "anti-racist" has pretty much become code for anti-Asian.

As a hiring manager, DEI efforts have made hiring a lot more challening. For my team we pretty much can only hire experienced, senior candidates with specialized skillsets. We do hire and train up juniors from time to time when our team gets big enough and has the time to mentor effectively. Anyway, women and minority candidates do apply (and get hired) for our positions but at much lower percentages. To meet DEI goa…

> They even pushed through a candidate once who didn't speak any of the same languages as anyone else on our team.

now that's what i call diversity!

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#115

Post by gnull »

yathaid wrote: post #112

"Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable." Can someone ELI5 what is this conflict between truth and social justice Haidt refers to?

> "The telos of a knife is to cut, the telos of medicine is to heal, and the telos of a university is truth."

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#116

Post by BlargMcLarg »

yathaid wrote: post #112

"Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable." Can someone ELI5 what is this conflict between truth and social justice Haidt refers to?

Basically, social justice is pushing its goals under a narrative which may not be true. It is merely assumed it is.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#117

Post by gnull »

trention wrote: post #100

I am extremely glad I live in a country in continental Europe where this shit is unconstitutional and will be stricken down by the courts immediately (as will be any sort of preferential treatment of any minority in hiring or admissions). Hope it stays that way.

But can't they still demand people to make this kind of political statements? (With no actual preferential treatment rules.)

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#118

Post by perceptronas »

trention wrote: post #100

I am extremely glad I live in a country in continental Europe where this shit is unconstitutional and will be stricken down by the courts immediately (as will be any sort of preferential treatment of any minority in hiring or admissions). Hope it stays that way.

Interestingly, in my EU country we have explicit laws in constitution which forbid any kind of preferential treatment or discrimination based on gender, race and etc. However, there are agencies and courts who allow affirmative action policies to exist. For example, a public grant for entrepreneurs where women are officially awarded extra points for their gender. So basically constitution is ignored and no one cares.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#119

Post by gnull »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #19
imgabe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> newly adopted requirement that everybody presenting research at the group's conferences explain how their submission advances "equity, inclusion, and anti-racism goals." Diversity is fine. But every single piece of research has to be related to diversity? Is it not possible to do research on anything else that maybe doesn’t have anything to do with identity issues? This is not a statement about promoting diversity,…

It's not so much off-topic research. The research output of much of social psychology tends to hurt the cause of DEI. They want to stop that.

Then Desi's cause should me adjusted, not science.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#120

Post by xg15 »

tpoacher wrote: post #71
imgabe wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research should not be dependent on whether or not it hurts any cause. If the research is poorly done, exclude it for that reason. If not, maybe re-examine what your cause is in light of the research. Copernicus's research into the Earth revolving around the Sun hurt the Catcholic church's cause of being the ultimate source of truth for all humanity. They wanted to put a stop to that... Starting with the answer and r…

Copernicus and Galileo being harangued by the Church of their time, and stifling progress of the obvious, is more popular myth than historical fact. It has been debunked many, many times. Ironically, the fervor and persistence with which this story gets propagated ad nauseam feels almost ... religious. I wish people would stop dropping it as the de facto example of interference with science when there are so many bet…

> It has been debunked many, many times.

Could you link some example of those many, many times?

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