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Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

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Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#111

Post by Someone »

dtagames wrote: post #33

Does anyone really think Apple is building a car? I don't and I never did. It makes no sense. It's not an industry one can just "switch into." The capital requirements for owning a car factory are ridiculous and it's not something you can outsource. There is zero crossover between consumer entertainment devices and the car business, as evidenced by the poor state of tech in cars! This is not something Apple can fix b…

> There is zero crossover between consumer entertainment devices and the car business, as evidenced by the poor state of tech in cars!

That looks similar to the state of MP3 players before the iPod, or smartphones before the iPhone. I think a self-driving car with a car-width display and hifi stereo (or better) could be a huge success, even if the self-driving only works on highways, as with the latest Mercedes.

> It's not an industry one can just "switch into."

Reminds me of https://www.marketwatch.com/story/apple-should-pull-the-plug...:

“Now compare that effort and overlay the mobile handset business. This is not an emerging business. In fact it's gone so far that it's in the process of consolidation with probably two players dominating everything, Nokia Corp. NOK, -0.68% and Motorola Inc. MOT

During this phase of a market margins are incredibly thin so that the small fry cannot compete without losing a lot of money.

As for advertising and expensive marketing this is nothing like Apple has ever stepped into. It's a buzz saw waiting to chop up newbies

The problem here is that while Apple can play the fashion game as well as any company, there is no evidence that it can play it fast enough. These phones go in and out of style so fast that unless Apple has half a dozen variants in the pipeline, its phone, even if immediately successful, will be passé within 3 months.

There is no likelihood that Apple can be successful in a business this competitive.”

Of course, that doesn’t imply the car industry is similar or that Apple can find the magic that cracks open the market, but they may think making a side bet of a few billion (Apple’s problem is that their MVP is larger than what the CEOs of most startups can only dream of) to see whether they can is a good idea.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#112

Post by madeofpalk »

usefulcat wrote: post #85
fdye wrote: post #26

So I've always wondered if Apple actually building a 'car' was ever really the goal. It seems like a skunkworks where they try crazy things and then incorporate into Carplay. Future seems to be ever expanding Carplay support. I use it and probably would not buy another car that did not have it integrated. I imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradual…

I dunno, a billion dollars a year (for 8 years) for CarPlay skunkworks seems like a bit much even for Apple..

Apple refuses to fund development of their own apps and platforms, yet sinks a billion into Carplay?

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#113

Post by SoftTalker »

s0rce wrote: post #95
SoftTalker wrote: post #25

I don't even think about buying cars less than 10 years old or so. I have actually had better luck doing this than when I used to buy cars new or nearly-new. It weeds out the lemons and the owners who don't take care of their cars. Let someone else take the depreciation and find out how they hold up in the long term. Does Apple have any history of supporting its hardware for that long?

I was trying to do this and the market seems terrible. I can buy a 10-12yr old car with 150k miles for >$10k (at least in models that I was looking at). Or stuff that is hard to maintain for $5k (which is what I'm already driving). Newer used cars are almost as much or even more than new! Ended up putting a deposit on a new one.

True enough that used car prices have kind of gone nuts in the past year or two.

I look for local private sales, not dealer cars. You have to be both patient and ready to pounce when a good deal comes up.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#114

Post by restore_creole_ »

jononomo wrote: post #104
jononomo wrote: post #102

I wish Toyota would partner with Apple for their internal maps, screen, controls, etc. Toyota seems to have a major problem with intuitive usability (especially for my parents who are in their 80s). Toyota is the largest car company in the world and makes the most reliable vehicles in the world, but they need that extra touch to take them to the next level. Just as I would never by a phone that is not an iPhone, or a…

How much would it cost for Apple to take a 10% stake in Toyota? Doesn't Apple have a couple hundred billion dollars just lying around in cash?

That would be around $19 billion and Apple has around $40 billion on hand. Although I think the culture of Japan would cause more difficulties other than having enough money to afford it.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#115

Post by taylodl »

What if Apple moved sideways and got into the electric motor scooter market instead and displacing the likes of Vespa? If they keep the power low enough (no freeway driving here!) then most states wouldn't require a special endorsement to ride it. It would be the ultimate cafe runner!

Hipsters, college students, high school students, and suburban folks needing to drive everywhere would love it - and it would be reducing the amount of dino fuel burning vehicles on the road. The battery could be easily removable and carried in to charge in your house/apartment/dorm without any special equipment. Apple could absolutely kill this market.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#116

Post by restore_creole_ »

rootusrootus wrote: post #53
SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #23

Given the number of times I've seen a reported, verified bug in OS X be "fixed" by hiding the bug from the public tracker and marking it "will not fix," I would have a hard time ever trusting a car made by Apple. Apple also makes their products to be disposable, seemingly as part of the culture, while a well-made electric car can run to a million miles over 50+ years. That's a very different build philosophy. The key…

> while a well-made electric car can run to a million miles over 50+ years That is a big claim, which is completely unsupported by reality. ICEVs do not get recycled because the engine died. Body rot, repairs that cost more than the value of the car, etc, this is why cars are taken off the road. If anything, the current batch of early generation EVs are probably going to have shorter than average lifespans compared t…

For the million mile mark there is at least one example.

https://insideevs.com/news/559261/tesla-models-p85-1500000-k...

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#117

Post by WalterBright »

There have been a lot of failed new car company startups. Like the Tucker, the Bricklin, the DeLorean. It's really, really, really hard to create a new car company. The usual problem is way, way underestimating the amount of capital it will take.

Tesla is an amazing company because they achieved it.

Apple's expertise is in making software and tiny electrical gadgets. How they thought that would translate into expertise in making cars is beyond me. It makes about as much sense as diversifying into making jet engines.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#118

Post by [deleted] »

rootusrootus wrote: post #66
paxys wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest reason that cars have horrible UX is that consumers don't care about it. No one is buying one for how good the speedometer looks. Give me a good performance and MPG. Make the components last long and be serviceable. Make it look good on the outside. Put advanced safety features. Perform well in crash tests. A hundred more of these and maybe the car will be worth buying. People here are delusional when the…

> People here are delusional when they go oh, Apple can make a better Carplay integration and easily outsell Ford and Tesla OTOH, why do most people buy a Tesla right now? "How good the speedometer looks" is a pretty good description. Performance is good, reliability awful, UI usability awful unless you like fancy computer graphics. As a car, a Model 3/Y has a lot of compromises and lacks many features other cars hav…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#119

Post by johannes1234321 »

fdye wrote: post #26

So I've always wondered if Apple actually building a 'car' was ever really the goal. It seems like a skunkworks where they try crazy things and then incorporate into Carplay. Future seems to be ever expanding Carplay support. I use it and probably would not buy another car that did not have it integrated. I imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradual…

> imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradually standardizing on a way to take all the displays/touchscreens in a vehicle and let them be run by Carplay seems like the future.

What is then remaining as distinctive feature of a car vendor? The design?

With their custom entertainment system they can confront they driver with their own brand identity and differentiate how they integrate the different features.

But with EVs the engines aren't as different as fossil fuel engines, they don't have their gear shifting with that adjustment anymore. Lots of brand vlauebis lost and becomes obvious to the buyer that cars are 95% the same across brands.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#120

Post by [deleted] »

WalterBright wrote: post #117

There have been a lot of failed new car company startups. Like the Tucker, the Bricklin, the DeLorean. It's really, really, really hard to create a new car company. The usual problem is way, way underestimating the amount of capital it will take. Tesla is an amazing company because they achieved it. Apple's expertise is in making software and tiny electrical gadgets. How they thought that would translate into experti…

[deleted]
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