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Go runtime: 4 years later

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Re: Go runtime: 4 years later

#111

Post by todotask »

amedvednikov wrote: post #61
nu11ptr wrote: post #29

I really like the engineering principles in general that the Go team uses, however, I just don't like Go. That isn't meant as a slight or anything other than simply my opinion. That said, I really like the idea of a simple language based on the sort of principles demonstrated here. The runtime seems really nice, I just wish I liked the language better (IMO: not expressive enough, needs better error handling, needs mu…

V fixes most of these, but it doesn't use Go's runtime: https://vlang.io/compare#go

I get you want to compare with Go, let have some benchmark. Despite V being new, the difference is quite insignificant for short-lived process in most case. You are more likely use Go for production at this time.

https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/v-vs-go

Re: Go runtime: 4 years later

#112

Post by [deleted] »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #101
akira2501 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't found any issues with expression, so far. I wouldn't use it to write a UI, but for writing networking code or automated tasks I find it perfectly suited to the task. I appreciate it's error handling. It's burdensome, sure, but it presents almost no additional cognitive load when attempting to reason about control flow. It essentially has no enums. However, it has a comfortable type system that can wrap prim…

Two comments: There are two reasons to have match: exhaustiveness and destructuring/pattern matching. I don't think there's an if/else parallel to `match result { Ok(t) => { ... }, Err(e) => { ... } }` The fact that a `nil` value can be made useful (which, AFAICT, means it won't blow up your program?) is not a good enough reason to include them in the language. Rust can do perfectly useful things with, say, `Option >…

[deleted]

Re: Go runtime: 4 years later

#113

Post by brabel »

Gigachad wrote: post #85
nu11ptr wrote: post #29

I really like the engineering principles in general that the Go team uses, however, I just don't like Go. That isn't meant as a slight or anything other than simply my opinion. That said, I really like the idea of a simple language based on the sort of principles demonstrated here. The runtime seems really nice, I just wish I liked the language better (IMO: not expressive enough, needs better error handling, needs mu…

Rust has set the bar so high that it’s going to be hard for other languages to justify their use. If I had to make a bet, I’d say Typescript will take over for everything not performance critical and Rust will fit in every spot that either requires high quality assurance or high performance.

Right, and no one will use Go, Java, Kotlin, Elixir, Ruby, Python, JavaScript, Haskell, OCaML, Ada, Lisp... anymore /s.

Re: Go runtime: 4 years later

#114

Post by kaba0 »

qaq wrote: post #79
nu11ptr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will agree Rust has a higher "cognitive load", but not if you write it every day. I think Rust might be tough to leave and come back say a year later, but Go admittedly would be easy. That said, having written 50K+ code in both languages, I never want to write Go again. Rust on the other hand is all I want to write now. I do wonder how many people who understand Go's limitations (and work around them as you point o…

Async code is way nicer in Go than it is in Rust. It makes up for a lot for me when writing web services. Also Go is much easier to read vs Rust.

And much more error prone.

Re: Go runtime: 4 years later

#115

Post by fs111 »

RhodesianHunter wrote: post #98
dopidopHN wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at you guys using nice looking languages! Haha, Java got better, but oh god it’s still verbose. We got rid of the getter setter silliness to be in “constructor land.” ( immutable records from Java 17 ) Function are still not first class citizens, but … they have a working visa now. You can shove lambda anywhere. It’s still awkward to write functional code Meh. Recently I’ve been really productive with it and I l…

Most developers on the JVM with any freedom have switched to Kotlin.

citation needed

Re: Go runtime: 4 years later

#116

Post by kaba0 »

yawn wrote: post #84
steveklabnik wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny how experiences differ; I can’t comment on how Go fares here, but if anything, I find that the compiler takes such a mental load off of my shoulders that Rust is the language I find easiest to make large refactorings in.

It's not about refactoring for me. It's about trying to grok what the heck some library author or coworker was thinking when they went all Architecture Astronaut with the type system and traits. It reminds me of how people go crazy with OO and end up with delegation spread across several files. I already have to hold the problem in my head. I find that Go takes such a mental load off my shoulders that I find it the e…

It may depend on the problem at hand as well. I never really bought this “each line is easier to comprehend” reasoning, because then ad absurdum we would all be writing assembly.

But sure, one is a low level language which can and thus must care about every little detail, while the other is a managed language. (And honestly, mixing the two as if they share the same niche is very off putting)

Re: Go runtime: 4 years later

#117

Post by kaba0 »

dopidopHN wrote: post #70
KerrAvon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's OK to have ergonomic opinions about languages! In scriptingland, I find Python abhorrent. Ruby fits my brain like a glove (the core language, not Rails). Doesn't indicate anything about the quality of the languages or their respective partisans.

Look at you guys using nice looking languages! Haha, Java got better, but oh god it’s still verbose. We got rid of the getter setter silliness to be in “constructor land.” ( immutable records from Java 17 ) Function are still not first class citizens, but … they have a working visa now. You can shove lambda anywhere. It’s still awkward to write functional code Meh. Recently I’ve been really productive with it and I l…

Java is several times more expressive and less verbose than Go, objectively.

Re: Go runtime: 4 years later

#118

Post by kaba0 »

uup wrote: post #100
spullara wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are actually suggesting what Java does in a container environment lol. https://developers.redhat.com/articles/2022/04/19/java-17-wh...

Maybe now, but in the past you'd have to worry about things like running out of PermGen space. There were definitely more knobs than a typical container environment.

And in the past it was interpreter only.

Re: Go runtime: 4 years later

#120

Post by kaba0 »

wejick wrote: post #74
throwamon wrote: post #3

Still yearning for an Ocaml-like language that uses the Go runtime.

go runtime is not VM like JVM [0]. Go doesn't run on top of runtime, more like run along side it. That's why there's go for embedded where it has no runtime. So it's very less likely other language reuse go runtime. [0] https://go.dev/doc/faq#runtime

There is absolutely no real difference between the two. One just bundles the code with the runtime while the other doesn’t and uses an intermediary format.
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