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Reasons young people are choosing sobriety

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Re: Reasons young people are choosing sobriety

#111

Post by AstralStorm »

seer-zig wrote: post #109
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be literal about it, it's because drinking is the default position, in the UK. The average person drinks. I'm an American and no stranger to drinking, but even for me, living there (in the late 2000s) there seemed to be a greater assumption amongst the people around me (with the huge exception of the many Muslim people) that everyone drank.

Vices are becoming the default positions in secular societies unfortunately.

Do you happen to have actually any data to truly make this point in a valid way?

A few of the most non-secular societies like Poland and Russia seem to belie this assertion.

Do not overestimate the power of religion here. Monks used to be purveyors of wine and spirits.

I'd wager that respectively fewer people drink now than before, mostly because other entertainment than a drinking place is now available.

Re: Reasons young people are choosing sobriety

#112

Post by AstralStorm »

Mathnerd314 wrote: post #87

It seems to agree with this study: https://www.thelancet.com/cms/10.1016/S0140-6736(22)00847-9/... Looking at table S1, Western Europe, second-to-last column (male TMREL), 2020 numbers, the age range 20-24 should only drink 0.155 grams alcohol/day, or about 1 12-oz beer (US standard drink) every 3 months. This is pretty close to sobriety. But at age 30-34 the recommended amount jumps to 1.48 grams/day or one beer eve…

I have a strong suspicion that the data shows a correlation, potentially showing that socialization is important, not the alcohol itself.

We really could use a legal intoxicant of this kind with fewer nasty side effects. They already exist.

Re: Reasons young people are choosing sobriety

#113

Post by adammarples »

socraticmethod wrote: post #77
daniel-thompson wrote: post #30

When I was in my 20s, I drank socially from time to time and even occasionally by myself. As I've grown older, I pretty much stopped: - I've found that the pressures of "adult" responsibilities (kids, real career, etc) leave little time for it - I want to model good behavior for my kids, and in particular, I don't want my kids to see me drinking or drunk - I'm in the back half of my 30s now - I've realized that the t…

>Spending that time with dulled senses What exactly is the fear of dulled senses? What are you gaining by being a bit sharper on Friday night that drinkers are losing? Is anything actually lost? I'm genuinely curious because most of the time the dulled senses bit is brought up it seems like there's almost always some kind of guilt on behalf of the speaker that causes them to feel uncomfortable with intoxication in a…

As you get older only a couple of drinks will dull your senses most of the next day too, the famous hangover

Re: Reasons young people are choosing sobriety

#114

Post by peterangular »

socraticmethod wrote: post #77
daniel-thompson wrote: post #30

When I was in my 20s, I drank socially from time to time and even occasionally by myself. As I've grown older, I pretty much stopped: - I've found that the pressures of "adult" responsibilities (kids, real career, etc) leave little time for it - I want to model good behavior for my kids, and in particular, I don't want my kids to see me drinking or drunk - I'm in the back half of my 30s now - I've realized that the t…

>Spending that time with dulled senses What exactly is the fear of dulled senses? What are you gaining by being a bit sharper on Friday night that drinkers are losing? Is anything actually lost? I'm genuinely curious because most of the time the dulled senses bit is brought up it seems like there's almost always some kind of guilt on behalf of the speaker that causes them to feel uncomfortable with intoxication in a…

> What exactly is the fear of dulled senses? What are you gaining by being a bit sharper on Friday night that drinkers are losing? Is anything actually lost?

If I drink even a drink or two I can definitely tell a difference in my performance the next day. I'm a bit more lethargic, not necessarily as alert, it's harder to get on the treadmill etc. When I was in my 20's it was honestly the same, but I just had more energy/gumption to work against it.

I do drink, but I have to say I've just been getting less and less into it. I gotta admit I still really love expensive beers.

> I would guess the average casual drinker dismisses the person that is worried about "staying sharp" as being uptight or unnecessarily rigid, because as you said, life is short and who really gives a damn about being 100% cognitive all the time?

Dealt with this too - I really don't care about my public image. Anymore, I almost outright refuse to drink at work events... and if the social pressure gets too crappy I just go get some random drink and nurse it at half way for hours. This the only place I've been pressured or discretely judged for not drinking. The only reason I lie by nursing a single drink is because people will assume the worst - that I am/was an alcoholic (this has happened).

I'm just not here to impress, and anyone passing judgement about someone else's lack of alcohol consumption is a loser. Seriously.

One more thought - when it comes to being "100%" - yeah... I find myself wanting to be at my best more and more. I think it's just maturing a bit and realizing time is waning. Even the stuff I do to relax I've noticed is more enhanced by sobriety vs. with alcohol.

Re: Reasons young people are choosing sobriety

#115

Post by fomine3 »

logicchains wrote: post #10
Victerius wrote: post #8

Question: Why has smoking all but been extinguished and is now viewed as gross and trashy (as it should), while alcohol has retained its glamour? Do governments need to start mandating pictures of people with alcohol poisoning on every bottle and can? Do restaurants need to start banning alcohol from their venues?

Alcohol in moderation is much less dangerous than smoking in moderation.

Driving is an exception.

Re: Reasons young people are choosing sobriety

#116

Post by tluyben2 »

some_furry wrote: post #103
tluyben2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know there are many happy people not drinking or using drugs and that’s great. I wish I would’ve been one. But of all students, 1/3rd seems very hard to not have any (most or significant) of those 100ks in the article to do something else that’s addictive and unhealthy; eat, dope, etc.

I don't know what to say. I can only speak to my experiences. Alcohol, drugs, etc. just don't appeal to me. I don't mind if other people partake. I'm sure a psychologist with 100% oversight into my life might cry foul on something. Too much social media, too little exercise, too much time reading cryptography papers, etc. I'm not sure how much that would overlap with "something else that's addictive and unhealthy" ho…

Yeah, I know what you mean; I have that or more accurately had that but unfortunately I also discovered I really like beer and I like myself on beer. I am more creative and indeed social on it. I met all my clients and friends and girlfriends and wife on it. I read and practice formal verification for fun and I write interpreters for fun and I could just do that forever, but it is lonely. I am an atheist and the universe doesn’t give a crap wether we live or die so I try to mix my intellectual challenges with fun. In the end neither will move any needle anyway; most of us will be completely forgotten in 100 or so years, even with kids. So I try to do good and be nice; it just works better with a couple of drinks when it involves others.

I do 6 months on and 6 months off (0 alcoholic drinks) every year; I am far more productive in the off months but less creative and far less social.

Re: Reasons young people are choosing sobriety

#117

Post by some_furry »

tluyben2 wrote: post #116
some_furry wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what to say. I can only speak to my experiences. Alcohol, drugs, etc. just don't appeal to me. I don't mind if other people partake. I'm sure a psychologist with 100% oversight into my life might cry foul on something. Too much social media, too little exercise, too much time reading cryptography papers, etc. I'm not sure how much that would overlap with "something else that's addictive and unhealthy" ho…

Yeah, I know what you mean; I have that or more accurately had that but unfortunately I also discovered I really like beer and I like myself on beer. I am more creative and indeed social on it. I met all my clients and friends and girlfriends and wife on it. I read and practice formal verification for fun and I write interpreters for fun and I could just do that forever, but it is lonely. I am an atheist and the univ…

Sure, I go to events in fursuit for similar reasons. It's fun and I feel better.

Re: Reasons young people are choosing sobriety

#118

Post by socraticmethod »

peterangular wrote: post #114
socraticmethod wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Spending that time with dulled senses What exactly is the fear of dulled senses? What are you gaining by being a bit sharper on Friday night that drinkers are losing? Is anything actually lost? I'm genuinely curious because most of the time the dulled senses bit is brought up it seems like there's almost always some kind of guilt on behalf of the speaker that causes them to feel uncomfortable with intoxication in a…

> What exactly is the fear of dulled senses? What are you gaining by being a bit sharper on Friday night that drinkers are losing? Is anything actually lost? If I drink even a drink or two I can definitely tell a difference in my performance the next day. I'm a bit more lethargic, not necessarily as alert, it's harder to get on the treadmill etc. When I was in my 20's it was honestly the same, but I just had more ene…

>I'm just not here to impress, and anyone passing judgement about someone else's lack of alcohol consumption is a loser. Seriously.

That entirely depends on the reasoning behind abstinence. Bad reasons or bad faith arguments are open to criticism.

Either way, fair points, particularly when various substances can have drastically different effects from person to person.

Re: Reasons young people are choosing sobriety

#119

Post by shafyy »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #98
shafyy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find bars a bit boring in general these days. No smoking, grumpy security goons everywhere, strict opening hours and drinking limits. You should come to Berlin :-)

>You should come to Berlin :-) Error 404, rental apartment not found :-)

Yeah well, I think Berlin is still doing better than most big cities on this front.

Re: Reasons young people are choosing sobriety

#120

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

shafyy wrote: post #119
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You should come to Berlin :-) Error 404, rental apartment not found :-)

Yeah well, I think Berlin is still doing better than most big cities on this front.

Better? Compared to what other big cities? Even in London it's easier to find rent.
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