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Get in zoomer, we're saving React

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Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#111
post #70

> Now, before you close this tab thinking "ugh, not another tech rant", let me first remind you that a post is not a rant simply because it makes you angry. Next, let me point out that I've been writing code for 32 years Well I closed that tab.

Heh, ditto. I knew what was coming next

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#113
>But this is the same company that seamlessly transitioned its entire stack from PowerPC, to x86, to x64, and eventually ARM, with most users remaining blissfully unaware this ever took place.

Also from 6502 to 65C03 to 65C816 to 68k to PowerPC... But Apple ][ users were painfully aware of the 68k transition. ;)

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#114

I agree with this guy. I can see that his tone unfortunately irks many to take offense and post. I am sad that microsoft has so dropped the ball on UI, that even MS' own teams use web tech to build apps nowadays. I particularly lament that scroll bars have become a lost art. We have gone from scroll bars working perfectly in windows 3.1, to .. whatever passes for a scrollbar these days. Often they are even hidden, so…

Recently scrolling through a list of countries to choose 'United Kingdom' I eventually found it under 'G'. The nearest I can figure, it was previously for 'Great Britain' and was never re-sorted? (Never mind that nobody in the UK has called it Great Britain since maybe mid 20th century!)

People still say Great Britain all the time (it refers to something slightly different than the UK though [1]). It's what the Olympic team is called, for example.

[1] https://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/the-difference-between-the-unit...

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#115

> What's really frustrating about all this is how passive and helpless the current generation of web developers seem to be in all this. It's as if they've all been lulled into complacency by convenience. They seem afraid to carve out their own ambitious paths, and lack serious gusto for engineering. If there isn't a "friendly" bot spewing encouraging messages with plenty of emoji at every turn, they won't engage. > A…

Things used to require much more competency.

For instance, I've been looking at old Byte Magazine issues on archive.org

Let's take November 1982. Here's an article on building a video digitizer (https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1982-11/page/n175/...) complete with circuit diagrams, signal examples, and a control program in 6502 assembly.

Hobbyist magazine. For enthusiasts.

If I had a candidate that did things like that for fun I'd hire them before getting their name.

Dev work has gotten too abstract and covered in bullshit.

Not that 6502 assembler is useful in 2022, but computers were a focused study that would result in productive capacity. For whatever reason that's been diffused and our attention is spent less fruitfully.

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#117

I agree with this guy. I can see that his tone unfortunately irks many to take offense and post. I am sad that microsoft has so dropped the ball on UI, that even MS' own teams use web tech to build apps nowadays. I particularly lament that scroll bars have become a lost art. We have gone from scroll bars working perfectly in windows 3.1, to .. whatever passes for a scrollbar these days. Often they are even hidden, so…

Recently scrolling through a list of countries to choose 'United Kingdom' I eventually found it under 'G'. The nearest I can figure, it was previously for 'Great Britain' and was never re-sorted? (Never mind that nobody in the UK has called it Great Britain since maybe mid 20th century!)

Ahhhhhh I hate this, it happens so many time when you're using a translated software: they proper translate the label, but do not order stuff again. In German, Germany is Deutschland but still comes after France

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#118

I agree with this guy. I can see that his tone unfortunately irks many to take offense and post. I am sad that microsoft has so dropped the ball on UI, that even MS' own teams use web tech to build apps nowadays. I particularly lament that scroll bars have become a lost art. We have gone from scroll bars working perfectly in windows 3.1, to .. whatever passes for a scrollbar these days. Often they are even hidden, so…

I thought windows had bad UX until I tried macOS. Maybe my taste is different than others but I found macOS UX to be really confusing. I particularly disliked the iconset. Interestingly this is not true for iOS and iPadOS, those are magnificent.

I'd say macOS actually is a lot more polished than Windows, but I agree with you that it is damn confusing. Try "closing" an app for example and you'll find that half the time it will not have closed properly, or maybe it did, who knows? It depends on the app. If it's vanilla you can bet it will have to be closed with CMD+Q

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#119
I wonder about this:

> A templating language ... targets a weird imagined archetype of someone who isn't allergic to code, but somehow isn't smart enough to work in a genuine programming language. In my experience, this archetype doesn't actually exist.

In my day job, I write "sequences" to command a spacecraft, in a neutered "sequencing language" with conditionals but no looping. Several people on our team who are great at writing sequences for the spacecraft feel they "can't code" and don't learn other languages. I had assumed the deal with templating languages was similar and this type of people were the target users.

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#120
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a template needs loops or even conditionals, it is already too complex for my taste as it leads to wrong design patterns blurring presentation/code boundary. Something that just allows to access variables and call functions will keep the boundary while allowing a non-programmer or even the end-user to edit it.

Logic-less template is ok despite some having loop because semantically, users also want to list things, add a thing to a list. I wouldn't add `if/else` but switch-case (this simulates category in user space, not complex condition). "Local variable" shouldn't be exposed to users. Collection name is ok. I think Shopify's Liquid is good, they just can't figure out decent UX on top of it.

A logic-less template is easily done, by exposing a few methods to the programmer providing the data. I remember Android XMLs to be logic-less and while it refers to concrete classes, something like this could easily be adapted to generate text. A designer wouldn’t need conditionals or loops because he could mark something as a container, the goes on to design the content (for loop, each cell). Desktop and Mobile had this for ages.

I’d be more than happy if a more powerful version of figma existed (capable of handling UI states). Then the designer would then hand the design files annotated with IDs to me, and then I could go on to implement logic. If we agree on some sort of contract for the UI, he can go play to his heart’s content with the Look and Feel.

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