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US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#111

Post by jscipione »

hedora wrote: post #84
jscipione wrote: post #43

Quoted post unavailable.

This program predates Biden. The fact that the Biden administration is cooperating with the senator (a Democrat) suggests the Biden administration doesn’t support the program very strongly. Most of this stuff was enabled by the patriot act, which was pushed through by George W Bush. Also, the Republican controlled Supreme Court recently ruled it is legal for states pass laws that explicitly ignore vote tallies moving…

Joe Biden wrote the Patriot Act. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4876107/user-clip-joe-biden-w...

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#112

Post by unethical_ban »

Bakary wrote: post #70
dylan604 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get the plausible activity bit. Just tell them it is your travel phone and be done.

That's not an acceptable answer in a number of countries.

What the fuck? Are you saying I would get denied entry to a country if I brought no phone or a new phone?

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#113

Post by mindslight »

xoa wrote: post #40
throwoutway wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ACLU is wrong. The border does it all the time. Here is the one that sticks out in my mind as the most popular case: https://gizmodo.com/border-agent-demands-nasa-scientist-unlo...

> The ACLU is wrong. The border does it all the time. Here is the one that sticks out in my mind as the most popular case: The ACLU is not wrong, if you actually read their actual words. Your case doesn't say what you think it does. From your own article: > Bikkannavar insisted that he wasn’t allowed to do that because the phone belonged to NASA’s JPL and he’s required to protect access. Agents insisted and he finall…

> Just because we have the legal right to something doesn't mean there is some magic barrier preventing LEOs from attempting to violating them, or implying the right doesn't exist. They have to be defended by people exercising them and potentially going to court

This is a major flaw in our system, and desperately needs legal reform. LEOs should only be allowed to ask people to do things that they can be legally compelled to do. Acting outside of that authority to coerce other actions should be charged equivalent to impersonating a police officer, kidnapping, or logically similar - the same as if a non-police dressed up in a police costume to coerce someone.

This is of course in addition to the need to make longstanding laws like the ones against murder apply to LEOs as well.

Not that I expect much to ever change. I've got to wonder what our society would be like if Hollywood hadn't leaned into "police procedural" for its cheap production cost. How many hours per week does the average American watch people pointing guns at one another and barking orders? It nowhere reflects real life, yet we've all been primed to think that's how the world operates.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#114

Post by unethical_ban »

DarthNebo wrote: post #77
josefresco wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty difficult with 2FA

2FA should be TOTP not SMS

My work-based 2FA is tied to my phone and is non-transferrable. If I lost my main phone without switching the 2FA install while logged in, I'd have to go through a recovery process.

Culprits: RSA Authenticate and Okta Verify.

My personal accounts that have 2FA are all backed up with Authy.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#115

Post by woodruffw »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #39

Terrifying for only 2 reasons: 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. 2. USGOV has a spotty track record of keeping this information secure. A foreign actor is likely to access this info eventually. As one former…

> 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens.

This isn't even remotely true. See for example the recent Anom honeypot[1]. Criminals do more or less the same things that ordinary citizens do, and often have strictly worse security practices because they believe "ordinary" things are weaker. This makes them great targets for snake oil.

That being said, I agree with (2). It's simply an unnecessary risk to keep this much data around for this long.

[1]: https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7veg8/anom-app-source-code-...

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#117

Post by hedora »

arc-in-space wrote: post #59

Uh, ok, sure, don't cross borders with devices with unencrypted sensitive data on them, got it.

… and then physically destroy any device border agents touch.

Also, make sure the device doesn’t have any credentials (especially avoid work SSO, Google and Apple credentials) on it, or things like signal, iMessage or RCS installed.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#118

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

oneplane wrote: post #90
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, right are only rights if they are enforced and/or asserted. If neither is done, at best, they are forgotten and wither and at worst become a quaint memory of things that were. The rules exist for a reason. They also exist for people with guns; especially for people that do it on behalf of government. If you are afraid of guns from people in uniform, you are already doing it wrong. I will tell you this as an inter…

It's not the guns that are the problem in this scenario, it's the person holding it. If they feel like they can get away with anything, no rule will help you. And even if down the line you get your day in court, you'll still be the one shot.

You might be onto something. Being able to gauge the person behind gun is probably helpful.

Long time ago in country far away, we was traveling through a soon to be former Soviet satellite country. My brother got really sick. We were worried he would die. GPS does not exist yet. Foreign country. We miraculously stumbled upon a hospital. It happened to have armed guards. They blocked the entrance. My mom got pissed and started walking towards them with my brother in her arms. Rifle was raised, but guard ended flat on the floor as my mom pushed him out of the way. My dad followed with an embarrassed hand gestures that he hoped meant 'sorry, she is a little preoccupied now'. Nothing happened. Brother didn't die either. We drove forth.

How you handle yourself matters; doubly so in a time of actual crisis.

edit: Don't be an idiot rule applies. Sensible person will not storm armed guards just because you read a testimonial on the net.

What do you propose then, because I assure you the world without rules will not be a world people will want to exist in for long?

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#119

Post by pteraspidomorph »

gambiting wrote: post #73
howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #39

Terrifying for only 2 reasons: 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. 2. USGOV has a spotty track record of keeping this information secure. A foreign actor is likely to access this info eventually. As one former…

>>So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. It's the old rule known to governments all over the world - there is no such thing as an innocent citizen, there is only a citizen who you haven't investigated enough. Call me cynical but storing ALL of your digital data allows the agencies to basically find something, anything, that will allow them to further blackmail you into complying. E…

These systems are perpetuated on the backs of the naive or sanctimonious enough to believe, and loudly proclaim, that they have nothing to hide; they haven't been targeted and haven't ever been in trouble; why are you breaking the law, you criminal scum?

Generations pass and everything remains the same. We're all on the same boat, so why are people so quick to judge against those targeted for violations of a contrived status quo?

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#120

Post by gambiting »

Bakary wrote: post #97
gambiting wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What border guards have you seen that would inspect a laptop that closely in the first place? I fly relatively frequently and all they care about is that it's kept in a separate bin to the rest of your luggage, no one looks at it upclose(also you can damage ports in a way that isn't visible on the outside).

99% of my flights have been exactly like this with no device inspection, and I've been in multiple autocratic countries. What I meant is that if they are at the stage where they are looking to plug into your laptop, having the ports blocked like this will immediately cause problems for you in countries where blocking your ports would be useful. It's a catch-22

Ah, I see - sorry I misunderstood. I thought the comment meant that you'd be stopped from boarding the plane in the first place if your laptop has glued up ports.
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