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One year on, El Salvador’s Bitcoin experiment has proven a failure

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Re: One year on, El Salvador’s Bitcoin experiment has proven a failure

#111

I want to wake up one day and cryptocurrency and anything related to it just doesn’t exist. Man that’d be a great day. Remove grifters, acquire actual progress.

> I want to wake up one day and internet and anything related to it just doesn’t exist. Man that’d be a great day.

Remove grifters, acquire actual progress.

I wonder if there were people in the 80s that said that.

Re: One year on, El Salvador’s Bitcoin experiment has proven a failure

#112
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admire your optimism, but I can't get on board. It would be naive to deny the growth of cryptocurrencies over the last few years, but it seems like the people who were meant to make money have since cashed out, that everything's peaked and turned a corner and the general public have turned against it (due in no small part to a few many shitcoins, rugpulls, scams, BAYC, and a couple of defunct exchanges). I'm sure c…

> it seems like the people who were meant to make money have since cashed out, that everything's peaked and turned a corner and the general public have turned against it Every 4 years it looks like that. And yet the next greed fueled ascension comes around like a clock. Each next one smaller than the last one. Next one will come around 2025 but this time it's going to be just few hundred percent.

My Coworker said this exact thing to me in 2019, that now was the time to buy because not many were talking about crypto and many had written it off, but that it worked in 4 year spikes. Wish I had listened to him then haha.

Re: One year on, El Salvador’s Bitcoin experiment has proven a failure

#113
post #49
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recognize that every two years for the past 10 years someone has posted basically the exact same thing as what you just posted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg

If a snarky YouTuber doing the “this one time at bandcamp” voice is the best argument, I dunno what to tell you. To borrow his condescending tone, he is making the argument “you think line go down, but line go up!” the latter half of which is the title of Dan Olsen’s high-profile video of the cryptocurrency boom. Unless it becomes practical to pay for something with cryptocurrencies (which for me should be the primar…

For millions of people, crypto-currencies are the most convenient way to buy lots of things. I've been buying things regularly with cryptocurrencies since 2011. Domain names, video games, hosting, consumer electronics, clothing, airfare, etc.

2017 marked a pivotal point where Bitcoin specifically abandoned catering to the brick and mortar and e-commerce use cases, and started focusing on large scale financial services. It was a frustrating development for sure, but people all over the world are using various smaller cryptocurrencies to buy groceries every day.

Cryptocurrencies might not be useful for you specifically, and that's fine. Maybe you're not one of the various under-served target demographics. Complaining about that though is a bit like complaining that Yen is useless because you live in the US and none of the businesses you frequent accept Japanese currency. It's undeniably a trillion dollar global economy that provides a massive amount of value to millions.

Re: One year on, El Salvador’s Bitcoin experiment has proven a failure

#114

I want to wake up one day and cryptocurrency and anything related to it just doesn’t exist. Man that’d be a great day. Remove grifters, acquire actual progress.

> I want to wake up one day and internet and anything related to it just doesn’t exist. Man that’d be a great day. Remove grifters, acquire actual progress. I wonder if there were people in the 80s that said that.

No, because the internet is actually useful.

Re: One year on, El Salvador’s Bitcoin experiment has proven a failure

#115

I principly agree on all criticisms, especially the seemingly reckless investment. However, the presupposed lack of adoption of Bitcoin as a means of payment is not supported by the source bar chart. The numbers are actually pretty impressive compared to card: ~25% of businesses accept card and 20% accept Bitcoin as payment. That is impressive adoption after 1 year by any standard in a country that primarily uses cas…

20% of business accepting bitcoin is just crazy high. Living in Germany it seems that 20% of business don't even accept regular credit cards yet.

Re: One year on, El Salvador’s Bitcoin experiment has proven a failure

#117

I want to wake up one day and cryptocurrency and anything related to it just doesn’t exist. Man that’d be a great day. Remove grifters, acquire actual progress.

> I want to wake up one day and internet and anything related to it just doesn’t exist. Man that’d be a great day. Remove grifters, acquire actual progress. I wonder if there were people in the 80s that said that.

Rationally, I understand what you're saying, speaking as someone who was intrigued by Bitcoin in 2012 and possibly made a little money off it while I was interested in it.

Humanistically, I gotta say, perceptions matter. I left crypto because it just started "tasting gross", regardless of the technological interest I had. Clearly, I wasn't in a minority with that.

Re: One year on, El Salvador’s Bitcoin experiment has proven a failure

#118

I want to wake up one day and cryptocurrency and anything related to it just doesn’t exist. Man that’d be a great day. Remove grifters, acquire actual progress.

> I want to wake up one day and internet and anything related to it just doesn’t exist. Man that’d be a great day. Remove grifters, acquire actual progress. I wonder if there were people in the 80s that said that.

Not really.

There are (and always will be) people who see no good in the Internet. I played a small part in its growth in the early 90s and even I have pangs of regret over what it has become. AND there was a lot of grift and lawlessness in the early Internet -- that is what paid the bills at first.

However, at the time I was able to articulate all the ways moving X, Y and Z to the Internet would make things better -- for hours on end -- and I would 'win' those arguments. OTOH, all my crypto crazed associates have trouble doing that same thing today. For years, the argument ended up being "I got in early and now my 'investment' is worth X amount." It has been an end justifies the means proposition.

In the end, the Internet was judged by its exponential growth and adoption. There was a mad rush of, arguably, useful activity going on... for years. Everything I wished for and pushed for back in the day has come true -- monkey paw curse and all. Bitcoin's use has actually gone down afaict, the market value of it is the only metric people care about.

Re: One year on, El Salvador’s Bitcoin experiment has proven a failure

#119

I want to wake up one day and cryptocurrency and anything related to it just doesn’t exist. Man that’d be a great day. Remove grifters, acquire actual progress.

I like it for the criminal options it facilitates. I don’t personally agree with being unable to import affordable medicine (non-domestic brand generics which weren’t produced in an FDA-approved facility) from India/Turkey/etc and I use bitcoin to facilitate buying the medicines I need from pharmacies which don’t require doctors prescriptions. It saves me a boatload of money and helps me greatly in managing my health. Or to get around the current widespread pharmaceutical shortages which continue since Hurricane Maria destroyed a lot of pharmaceutical production infrastructure in Puerto Rico (e.g. bacteriostatic water).

I also am largely okay with people using it for personal quantities of controlled substances, even though I do not use it for that personally. Sometimes these are for legitimate medicinal purposes as well (for example, schedule 2 TRT and HRT drugs)

Re: One year on, El Salvador’s Bitcoin experiment has proven a failure

#120
The policy only ever made a little sense. What El Salvador desperately wants is a currency it can inflate to pay for the stuff it can not afford. In this regard, it is no different than any other country.

What it had was a currency it does not print (US dollar) and for which there is an ongoing international shortage.

What El Salvador got with Bitcoin was yet another currency it does not print and for which there is currently an international surplus.

The thing the article does not mention, and the only reason the policy made any sense, is that ~50% of Salvadorans live abroad. So there is a substantial remittance market in El Salvador relative to GDP. Allowing remittances to flow through bitcoin cuts out companies like Western Union who scoop from the top.

Even so, this scheme only makes a little sense. A better approach might have been for the government to have set up a USD-based remittance program of its own.

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