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Mikhail Gorbachev has died

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Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#111
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

The world had already A/B tested "damage the economy so that it would never be a threat again" and "help transition to democracy" with Germany. The latter worked better.

I'm not the one who needs convincing.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#112
post #96
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Andrei Piontkovskiy, in addition to two known World Wars, considers the Cold War as the World War III and the current war in Eastern Europe as the World War IV. His parallels are that WWII was fought by Germany dissatisfied by the results of WWI, and WWIV is fought by Russia dissatisfied by the results of WWIII.

This analogy doesn't hold for "WWIII" though, right? By this analogy, I would call the current crisis "Cold War II".

World wars involve many countries, and Cold War definitely qualify. Today's war is a pretty active, quite large "hot" war, which also involves many countries - even though most fight by proxy.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#113

As the Russian, I'm of the opinion that Gorbachev is traitor. I hate communism, so it's good that he helped us to get rid of that. But why getting rid of communism had to include letting Americans to take reign in many government agencies of Russia? What would be your opinion of US president, if he goes to to retire in Russia? I'm reading some Russian news site, and almost universally Gorbachev is hated by Russians.

what are his chances living to this ripe old age if he had stayed? i don't think he had a spectacular life in the US either, just became a normal bloke

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#114

»A Soviet man is waiting in line to purchase vodka from a liquor store, but due to restrictions imposed by Gorbachev, the line is very long. The man loses his composure and screams, ›I can’t take this waiting in line anymore, I HATE Gorbachev, I am going to the Kremlin right now, and I am going to kill him!‹ After 40 minutes the man returns and elbows his way back to his place in line. The crowd begin to ask if he ha…

[deleted]

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#115

»A Soviet man is waiting in line to purchase vodka from a liquor store, but due to restrictions imposed by Gorbachev, the line is very long. The man loses his composure and screams, ›I can’t take this waiting in line anymore, I HATE Gorbachev, I am going to the Kremlin right now, and I am going to kill him!‹ After 40 minutes the man returns and elbows his way back to his place in line. The crowd begin to ask if he ha…

This is not a joke. I was in Russia during the Gorby era (and early Yeltsin) and people indeed hated Gorby for his attempt to crack-down on drunkenness by limiting the purchase of vodka.

Have you heard about a single moment in time when people liked the leader of their country?

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#116
post #22

The United States didn't do enough to help Russia transition to democracy in the 1990s. There was no "Marshall Plan" after the Cold War like there was after World War II. This was a huge mistake, and we see the consequences now, with Russia having turned back toward totalitarianism and imperialism. Sadly, it seems that Gorbachev's efforts were mostly for naught. But it was courageous at the time to open up the Soviet…

The West was and is about capitalism, not democracy. Democracy in the Third and Second World often gets in the way for the West since it brings with itself problems like nationalization of resources (i.e. closing off resources to Western corporations). Probably other problems as well.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#117

As the Russian, I'm of the opinion that Gorbachev is traitor. I hate communism, so it's good that he helped us to get rid of that. But why getting rid of communism had to include letting Americans to take reign in many government agencies of Russia? What would be your opinion of US president, if he goes to to retire in Russia? I'm reading some Russian news site, and almost universally Gorbachev is hated by Russians.

> But why getting rid of communism had to include letting Americans to take reign in many government agencies of Russia?

Wow. Such a claim. I'm sure you have mountains of examples of this happening just one time.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#118
post #30
post #22

The United States didn't do enough to help Russia transition to democracy in the 1990s. There was no "Marshall Plan" after the Cold War like there was after World War II. This was a huge mistake, and we see the consequences now, with Russia having turned back toward totalitarianism and imperialism. Sadly, it seems that Gorbachev's efforts were mostly for naught. But it was courageous at the time to open up the Soviet…

Was the absence of Marshall plan happened because of the West or because of Russia's decision? > Sadly, it seems that Gorbachev's efforts were mostly for naught. Russia today is a faint ghost of the former USSR. The events in Eastern Europe show that to an extent.

> Russia today is a faint ghost of the former USSR.

Russia was only a part of the USSR. Their main problem is that they, too, believe that they are the former USSR, and try to restore the former glory. Well, the state of the war in Ukraine (another part of the former USSR) clearly shows how wrong they are.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#119
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The locals in power have to want to do it too. As soon as enough don’t want it, it is over. I’m skeptical of the idea that you can impose Democracy.

Republicans have long said that the federal government is structurally incompetent and unable to effectively administer a large country. They made a convincing argument with their performance in Iraq and Afghanistan, and I doubt Russia would have been much different.

Republicans? Man, some people just can't get past the "my party vs your party" mindset.

Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died

#120
post #22

The United States didn't do enough to help Russia transition to democracy in the 1990s. There was no "Marshall Plan" after the Cold War like there was after World War II. This was a huge mistake, and we see the consequences now, with Russia having turned back toward totalitarianism and imperialism. Sadly, it seems that Gorbachev's efforts were mostly for naught. But it was courageous at the time to open up the Soviet…

> There was no "Marshall Plan" after the Cold War like there was after World War II

Well, kinda https://www.thenation.com/article/world/harvard-boys-do-russ...

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