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They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

waqas.xyz

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Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#111

Post by satellite2 »

dnissley wrote: post #101
DoreenMichele wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a moderator. Decisions are made contextually. One of his complaints is they clearly don't know what the hell is going on in Pakistan and this is a root cause of their mishandling of things. It is a completely reasonable criticism.

Is it really reasonable? Twitter fails regularly to take such context into consideration when making moderation decisions in their home country. How could it be reasonable to expect them to get it right when it comes to the context of a foreign country?

Assuming Twitter is serving the Pakistani market, making revenue and paying taxes there, it seems reasonable to ask for the same quality controls as elsewhere. In particular hiring Pakistanis for moderation shouldn't be economically devastating for their operations in this country. So on top of being a very reasonable request it should be a minimum requirement of their operating model.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#112

Post by twoxproblematic »

pbasista wrote: post #67
MichaelCollins wrote: post #29

Being realistic: if your life hangs by the thread of twitter moderation, you should either run and hide, or get your affairs in order. If they really want you dead, even the best possible twitter moderation won't keep you safe. This whole circumstance of people wanting you dead is not twitters fault and there is very little twitter could do to protect you even if their moderation was perfect.

> whole circumstance of people wanting you dead is not twitters fault The hate speech itself is of course the sole responsibility of whoever created it. Twitter is, however, fully responsible for allowing it to be spread. Without a major communication channel which enables this hate speech to reach massive audiences, it would most likely remain isolated to a small number of people. And it probably would not evolve in…

No post body was provided.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#113

Post by tsimionescu »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #80
karaterobot wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should Twitter do in this case? You say "their damn job", but their job is to apply their content policies, which they say they are doing. Given only the tweets linked in the article, I can see how a moderator would look at them and not find that they are obviously breaking any rules. They may be false accusations, but Twitter has not agreed to do independent investigations of every report by a user, or take on…

I've been a moderator. Decisions are made contextually. One of his complaints is they clearly don't know what the hell is going on in Pakistan and this is a root cause of their mishandling of things. It is a completely reasonable criticism.

Would you also expect Google Search to take down links to local media outlets publishing similar stories?

I don't personally think Twitter should be expected to go against the official government narrative of any country they operate in, for what it shows inside that country. Not that it would be immoral to do so, but I find it an entirely unrealistic expectation - Twitter is not the BBC.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#114

Post by fluoridation »

indymike wrote: post #76
ricardobeat wrote: post #20

I can see where he’s coming from, but Twitter is a media company. They are not directly responsible for anyone’s safety and have no reason to take down content that isn’t a direct threat or clear defamation. That’s the police or justice system’s job. An unfortunate situation but he is barking at the wrong tree it seems.

>They are not directly responsible for anyone’s safety and have no reason to take down content that isn’t a direct threat or clear defamation. From the article: the author is asking to have false, defamatory content removed. > That’s the police or justice system’s job. That is not an available option to the author of this article. The author is alleging that false posts are being made to lay the groundwork for the au…

>the author is asking to have false, defamatory content removed.

The author is asking to have content that he says is false removed.

>The author is alleging that false posts are being made to lay the groundwork for the author being detained and tortured by the local justice system.

Since the tweets may be used as an excuse to have him detained, removing them will do nothing, because the government could just as easily use a different medium for the same purpose. Twitter can't prevent someone who can and wants to kidnap you from kidnapping you.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#115

Post by fluoridation »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #110
fluoridation wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could a business possibly account for that in a way that doesn't make doing business over the Internet logistically impossible?

The arguments I'm seeing here boil down to "It's okay to go in with your tank full of tchochky souvenirs and run over a few powerless locals to protect yourself so you can make a few bucks." The general trend is that, when in doubt, Twitter should cover its own ass. I would like to see a standard of "When in doubt, don't run over pedestrians with your tank." Surely a company can come up with some best practices that…

Sorry, but I'm not seeing an answer to my question.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#116

Post by tsimionescu »

satellite2 wrote: post #111
dnissley wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really reasonable? Twitter fails regularly to take such context into consideration when making moderation decisions in their home country. How could it be reasonable to expect them to get it right when it comes to the context of a foreign country?

Assuming Twitter is serving the Pakistani market, making revenue and paying taxes there, it seems reasonable to ask for the same quality controls as elsewhere. In particular hiring Pakistanis for moderation shouldn't be economically devastating for their operations in this country. So on top of being a very reasonable request it should be a minimum requirement of their operating model.

And why do you think Pakistani Twitter moderators would feel empowered to take down tweets by government officials willing to torture and murder?

The request for Twitter to help in this case only makes sense if it assumed it will be taken by moderators living outside of Pakistan, who don't have to fear government reprisal for their actions.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#117

Post by notch656a »

waqasx wrote: post #90
notch656a wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article reads like an asylum claim. Hopefully they already have permanent legal permanent residence somewhere else, if not they will likely by applying for asylum. It could be the whole thing was written expressly for the purpose of asylum. Going back to Pakistan at this point would mean basically picking how you want to go out. Either by defending your life in one last moment before a corrupt government takes y…

i am not. i find this accusation disgusting. i do not have a problem, legally, in staying here. my problem is exactly because i WANT to go back and not face any violence.

I don't understand, you don't want to be here. You want to go back. But an American technology company is what's stopping you? Once twitter does what you say you can safely go back home?

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#118

Post by gweinberg »

Twitter is in a bit of a pickle here. One could argue that accusing someone of being an agent of a hostile foreign power is basically libel and should be banned. But it's hard to say how they could have a rule against baselessly accusing a Pakistani of being an agent of Israel or India while maintaining the rule that it is fine to baselessly accuse an american of being an agent of Russia.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#119

Post by DoreenMichele »

tsimionescu wrote: post #116
satellite2 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming Twitter is serving the Pakistani market, making revenue and paying taxes there, it seems reasonable to ask for the same quality controls as elsewhere. In particular hiring Pakistanis for moderation shouldn't be economically devastating for their operations in this country. So on top of being a very reasonable request it should be a minimum requirement of their operating model.

And why do you think Pakistani Twitter moderators would feel empowered to take down tweets by government officials willing to torture and murder? The request for Twitter to help in this case only makes sense if it assumed it will be taken by moderators living outside of Pakistan, who don't have to fear government reprisal for their actions.

Hiring locals instead of operating from afar is potentially a means to establish a de facto negotiating position.

"I'm sorry, Pakistan, if you can't behave better, we will have no choice but to evacuate our local offices full of relatively well paid jobs and take our toys and go home. Feel free to explain that to your people however you so wish."

Money talks.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#120

Post by PoignardAzur »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #77
bell-cot wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Morally? Yes, a very reasonable request. OTOH - is there any large real-world corporation which has ever gotten itself into a sustained info-war conflict with a well-armed and angry nation state, for the purpose of protecting one "ordinary" person from that nation state? I'm guessing "no".

He says he's a journalist. That used to mean something. So it's rather dismissive and disrespectful to characterize him as an ordinary person with scare quotes no less. If these platforms feel unable to moderate fairly due to fear of foreign governments, perhaps they should tuck tail and keep their pussy selves out of the conflict entirely. I'm not impressed with an argument of "We want the money involved but we can'…

> He says he's a journalist. That used to mean something.

That's a broad and unsupported claim. I'm not aware of any evidence being a journalist previously gave you some sort of immunity / corporate protection against totalitarian states that has now gone away.

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