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EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

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Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#111

Post by inferiorhuman »

aetherspawn wrote: post #90

Considering that 10G fiber gear is not very expensive at all (ie 28 port fiber switch - $1000) I’ve wondered what the hold-up is on 10Gbps SFP+ becoming a standard. In Australia we’re shamefully paying $1150 per month for our business symmetrical 10G SFP+ (shaped to 1/1G), but a 1G 1000/40 connection is only $100/mo.

You still have to get transceivers for both ends of each and every connection which drives up the cost per port pretty dramatically.

Edit:

  Scantly driving up the cost per port.
Say what? You've just added $1,500 (28 ports * 2 per port * $27) to the cost of a 28 port switch… at the low end.

Now I've no experience with fiber, but anecdotally I've come across a few complaints that the Ubiquiti stuff is picky about the transceivers you use. So if you go with a single manufacturer, Ubiquiti wants about $900 for their 28 port switch, but SFP+ transceivers start at $38. Their direct attach cables are cheaper but a 5m cable will still run you about $40. Compare that to *BaseT where I can grab a 3m Cat6 cable for under $10.

For an ISP the cost difference probably matters much less as they will be making money off of each connection (and likely saving on cooling costs). For a home user (e.g. an EPB customer) that's still pricey. An ER-X w/ a single SFP port runs about $80, using that SFP port will cost you.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#112

Post by icedchai »

TylerE wrote: post #108
icedchai wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is ever ideal. The point is available SSD disk I/O bandwidth will exceed network bandwidth well above a gigabit.

And my point is that for 99% of people even 1Gb is overkill, so I'm not seeing why they expect Joe Smith to suddenly start buying $500 routers.

Yeah, I completely agree with you there! The average person doesn't need gigabit speeds. The only reason I even upgraded from 100 megabits to 300 is because it was literally 5 bucks more a month.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#113

Post by yadaeno »

KerrAvon wrote: post #61
8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me tell you the story of CA attempting to build high speed rail..

“real estate is expensive and NIMBYs don’t want it”… the end. (Also the story of why Hyperloop is pointless. technology isn’t the problem that needs solving! Fast rapid transit tech has existed since the 1980’s and it’s not the cost issue.)

Thats not the end... the project has secured funding and is estimated to have a route from sf to la by 2030.

Also Elon Musk admitted that he had no intention of building hyperloop, it was just a way to detail HSR so he could sell more cars.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#114

Post by azinman2 »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #92
dweekly wrote: post #59

I think things like this are great because they will finally start to create pressure to commodify >1gbps networking in the home. The industry has some work to do here. I've been on Sonic 10G for almost a year now and LOVE it, but it's definitely been a sore spot to get things set up to expect those kinds of speeds - prosumer 10G switches are vastly more expensive per-port, wired consumer devices don't typically supp…

10GBaseT is the wrong solution, period. As you've found out it runs hot (somehow I doubt all the fanless consumer trinkets are going to last very long). Not that Ubiquiti is a good example – even with their 1G kit they had issues with thermal management. Both the ER-X and ER-L ran hot enough to cook themselves (especially the early ones with the tiny SD cards). True to form my ER-Xs get flakey when it gets slightly w…

> Sonic's offerings are really geared towards web browsing more than anything.

What do you mean by that? I fully saturate my 1G link for work all the time.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#115

Post by icedchai »

yborg wrote: post #66
mindslight wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with municipal Internet is the town will build it out once, and then never upgrade the technology while it slowly becomes obsolete . Seriously though, municipal fiber is fantastic. I've been an observer to friends having conversations about Internet provider woes, while I just sit there shaking my head. I've only got 1Gb but I rarely care about the bandwidth, consistent <15ms ping to close data centers, t…

The OP story is literally the municipal provider delivering 25x faster service over 12 years. The "never upgrade the technology" provider is usually going to be monopoly Comcast, because they know your other option is a can and string.

So true. Almost 10 years after DOCSIS 3.1 was released, we still don't have better upstream speeds. I wonder, is there a cable company anywhere that actually does support DOCSIS 3.1 upstream?

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#116

Post by Gigachad »

TylerE wrote: post #68
dweekly wrote: post #59

I think things like this are great because they will finally start to create pressure to commodify >1gbps networking in the home. The industry has some work to do here. I've been on Sonic 10G for almost a year now and LOVE it, but it's definitely been a sore spot to get things set up to expect those kinds of speeds - prosumer 10G switches are vastly more expensive per-port, wired consumer devices don't typically supp…

I wonder how much of a push this will really be? For the vast majority of people even vanilla gigabit is of limited benefit... that's on the edge of what a consumer SSD is writing at.

Even as a regular consumer I see the benefit. I buy a new game, and its typically something like 100GB. Gigabit internet is the difference between waiting 15 minutes and 1 hour to play my new game. This is not an uncommon use case and the difference is quite large.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#117

Post by Gigachad »

mabbo wrote: post #101

I recently upgraded to 1.5gbps and realized a few things. The downsides: the Cat5e cables inside my condo walls can't handle more than 1.0gbps; my desktop's network port also maxes out at 1.0gbps; the wifi router in my home can't do more than 600mbps even if standing right next to it. But also, nothing I do needs this much bandwidth. I can download any steam game in the blink of an eye. I can watch streaming video at…

Steam games is the biggest benefit I saw. Modern games are in the tens to hundreds of GB now so gigabit internet is the difference between waiting 15 minutes and 1 hour.

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#118

Post by theideaofcoffee »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #111
aetherspawn wrote: post #90

Considering that 10G fiber gear is not very expensive at all (ie 28 port fiber switch - $1000) I’ve wondered what the hold-up is on 10Gbps SFP+ becoming a standard. In Australia we’re shamefully paying $1150 per month for our business symmetrical 10G SFP+ (shaped to 1/1G), but a 1G 1000/40 connection is only $100/mo.

You still have to get transceivers for both ends of each and every connection which drives up the cost per port pretty dramatically. Edit: Scantly driving up the cost per port. Say what? You've just added $1,500 (28 ports * 2 per port * $27) to the cost of a 28 port switch… at the low end. Now I've no experience with fiber, but anecdotally I've come across a few complaints that the Ubiquiti stuff is picky about the t…

Let's be generous and assume that we need far more reach than what is realistic in this scenario, take it at 10km between the subscriber demarc and the CO where these connections would presumably be terminated. A 10km LR optic is only $27 [0]. Amortize that over, say, three years and that's $0.75 per port, multiplied by two, so call it $1.50 per port/month over three years. Scantly driving up the cost per port. The physical fiber linking the two ends is more expensive (though you could depreciate and amortize over a longer period of time).

The 25G optics are barely that much more, LR/10km for $59 a pop. [1]

[0] https://www.fs.com/products/74670.html?attribute=4254&id=290...

[1] https://www.fs.com/products/75297.html?attribute=740&id=3417...

Re: EPB launches America’s first community-wide 25 gig internet service

#119

Post by mindslight »

drBonkers wrote: post #89
mindslight wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcasm. It's a useful skill that fosters self awareness and builds your memetic defenses. And I even included a free tag to help train your detector.

Do you have any books or resources on how sarcasm affects self awareness and memetic defenses?

I don't know what a book could do for you, as it would be too literal/linear regardless of the meta. What I do know is that understanding sarcasm requires critically evaluating everything you take in, and being keenly aware of the context around it. (Hence it being good to tag impersonal written communication - if we were meatspace friends you'd already have a strong assumption that I wasn't a Ma Bell lobbyist drone). And hearing corporate marketing speak parodied sardonically makes you less likely to just accept it when you're earnestly inundated with it. I'd also say this topic is closely related to "security thinking" where one critically examines the converse/implication of every statement.
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