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The gathering crisis in the UK

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Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#111

Post by jacquesm »

eisa01 wrote: post #66

This is not limited to the UK Europe has been in an energy war with Russia for the past year, we have a drought affecting hydro power and the French nuclear fleet is just out of service The government action up to now has been almost nothing, basically amounting to announcing a few LNG import projects and updated 2030 targets. Nearly nothing has been done to the demand side nearly six months into this crisis What nee…

Great stuff, fully agreed with all of these.

And I would add: a very large industrial effort to create heatpumps on such a scale that we can convert all of Europe in two years tops.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#112

Post by jacquesm »

Lendal wrote: post #47
throxaway wrote: post #19

I think when discussing this, it should be recognised that there is ample evidence that Russia has worked last several years to undermine the stability of western democracies. Brexit vote and resulting chaos being one glaring result. I am suggesting that we are just starting to understand the magnitude in which Russia has been able to cause havoc in the west by taking advantage of our freedoms. Link: https://en.m.wik…

I don't think "freedom" is to blame. Freedom in varying degrees has been around for a long time, and attempts to exploit it failed to produce results for the enemies of freedom. They have however recently identified a weakness, (not freedom) and have exploited it to devastating effect. If we continue to fail to identify and make repairs to that weakness, well then that's on us and we deserve what we get.

Freedom isn't to blame directly, but freedom can be abused and without defense mechanisms it will be abused.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#113

Post by jacquesm »

airza wrote: post #29
throxaway wrote: post #19

I think when discussing this, it should be recognised that there is ample evidence that Russia has worked last several years to undermine the stability of western democracies. Brexit vote and resulting chaos being one glaring result. I am suggesting that we are just starting to understand the magnitude in which Russia has been able to cause havoc in the west by taking advantage of our freedoms. Link: https://en.m.wik…

I think if your country's politics can be this badly steamrolled by a kleptocracy with the GDP of Italy then maybe, just maybe, you live in a failed state.

This is victim blaming. Destruction is asymmetrical compared to creation. It takes one idiot with a match and 30 seconds to burn your house down. Doesn't mean your house wasn't properly constructed.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#114

Post by kspacewalk2 »

pasabagi wrote: post #106
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corbyn seems to have done a fine enough job smearing himself over his long and illustrious career of far-left populism and terrorism apologia. His campaign signed up a lot of fly-by-night party members and was successful in getting him elected party leader, but convincing the general public was far more difficult. (Part of the answer to why Labour has been out of power for 13 years is the Corbyn disaster, it explains…

Eh, they did quite well in 2017 - in fact, the best performance for the Labour party since Blair was under Corbyn[0]. [0]: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-...

And then they lost 60 seats under Corbyn in 2019. Winning 202, the lowest number of seats since 1935.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#115

Post by drcongo »

radicaldreamer wrote: post #76
poulsbohemian wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might sound like cheap shots, but I say it with love for my friends in the Uk... If you look at Britain historically...coal is dead. Wool is dead. The island itself is fairly small for much agriculture. There aren't a whole lot of natural resources. They had power and resources through their empire, but that is gone. Their one shot, so to speak, was like many developed nations - services, including financial. Bu…

Their financial empire still remains strong, as a conduit or storage tank for illicit flows from corrupt countries worldwide (a kind of Switzerland with a large population and areas for investment).

London is the money laundering capital of the world. That's literally all we have left.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#116

Post by mhuffman »

banannaise wrote: post #96
usgroup wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about the budget deficit? It’s not really like a pot you only look into when times are hard since it’s constantly known. I really like your metaphor, but it is misleading.

It's not the budget. It's the hidden cuts to services, the declining maintenance to infrastructure, the privatization of essentials. Those are the licks they take from the pot, while they tell you the pot is still full.

Exactly! Shrinkflation, wage suppression, union busting, dynamic pricing of medications, etc -- lick, lick, lick!

[1]https://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/175/grimms-fairy-tales/3068/cat-a...

(edit, this isn't for the UK, but fat cats abound!)

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#117

Post by drcongo »

throwyawayyyy wrote: post #41
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corbyn seems to have done a fine enough job smearing himself over his long and illustrious career of far-left populism and terrorism apologia. His campaign signed up a lot of fly-by-night party members and was successful in getting him elected party leader, but convincing the general public was far more difficult. (Part of the answer to why Labour has been out of power for 13 years is the Corbyn disaster, it explains…

There's an alternate history in which it was David Miliband who became Labour leader, not his brother. Who knows of course, but there's a decent chance it would have prevented the disaster of Brexit (and the related disaster, for Labour and the country, of Corbyn).

He's just another diet Tory like Starmer though.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#118

Post by eisa01 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #110
eisa01 wrote: post #66

This is not limited to the UK Europe has been in an energy war with Russia for the past year, we have a drought affecting hydro power and the French nuclear fleet is just out of service The government action up to now has been almost nothing, basically amounting to announcing a few LNG import projects and updated 2030 targets. Nearly nothing has been done to the demand side nearly six months into this crisis What nee…

> French nuclear fleet is just out of service Isn't it just temporary due to the heatwave? Thus they'll be able to power them back on as winter hits (which coincides with extra demand for heating)?

Not only. It's also extra outages due to discovery of cracks in pipes related to the safety system...

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2022/04/24/french-...

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#119

Post by jacobn »

reggieband wrote: post #78

I am reminded of the story of the fat cat that I recently read in a Brothers Grimm collection. In case it is not familiar to you: A cat and a mouse decide to team up and store up some surplus food for hard times. They agree during abundant times to both put a little extra fat into a shared pot. They then store the pot in a safe place. The cat, however, is overcome by hunger even in the abundant times. Every few weeks…

I read something slightly different into your metaphor: it's about pro-social, positive sum games vs zero/negative sum games.

The mouse is participating in the positive sum game of joint savings, and the cat is robbing it blind (very negative sum as it's also robbing its future self).

There's a lot of that happening across society (healthcare, education, addiction-fueled tech companies, ...), and the people who do it oftentimes do end up (at least short term) better off (= rich), but we as a nation end up poorer (the whole negative sum thing).

There are however plenty of ways to become rich doing positive sum things (though lord knows it's harder than it looks), so there will be rich people who don't deserve the blame so to speak.

But the clearly visible, media-amplified cases will of course be cartoonish villains, all too eager to sell you the rope to hang them with so to speak.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#120

Post by WaxProlix »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #114
pasabagi wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, they did quite well in 2017 - in fact, the best performance for the Labour party since Blair was under Corbyn[0]. [0]: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-...

And then they lost 60 seats under Corbyn in 2019. Winning 202, the lowest number of seats since 1935.

That was the result of the aforementioned internal torpedoing of Corbyn though, right? Cutting off the nose to spite the face or something.
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