Why not? Everyone knows that when you’re running a scam and things get rough you don’t back down, you double down.
The guy just got a free $7500 courtesy of the tax payer for every car he sells.
Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th
111–120 of 129 posts
Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th
#112I recently rented a 2022 Model 3 from Hertz for 9 days. It didn't have the FSD option available, but it did have the preview of what the system would see. Based on that alone, I was alternately impressed and terrified of what the FSD experience would be like. It was mostly accurate in showing other vehicles, but some of their trajectories when turning in front of me looked like a really bad video game with weird orie…
What's the rationale for renting an EV? Isn't it more troublesome because you probably won't have a charger in whatever place your staying, so you can't charge it overnight?
Well, our regular ICE rental car (2020 Hyundai Elantra) got stolen, likely using a low tech viral method [0]. We went back to the rental company and they wouldn't replace the stolen car until we had a police report. We needed a car, and the options at the airport where we rented were limited. We could get a pickup truck or a model 3 for about the same price. We opted for the model 3 to try it out. There was only one supercharger in the area, but it was close to our hotel, so it wasn't bad. I'd been wanting to try a Tesla, so despite the crappy circumstances, it seemed like a silver lining.
[0] https://www.today.com/news/news/kia-hyundai-vehicle-theft-in...
Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
FSD handles those situations well, compared to Waymo etc, because FSD doesn't depend on pre-mapping. Waymo depends on pre-generated 3D maps and it fails if there's a discrepancy. That's why Waymo works only on small areas and uses cherry-picked routes. See this example, where the map data is completely wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gTV9SlutU0
Compared to anything else that also doesn't work, ok. But that is not the yardstick to apply, is it? Does it actually work in the real world is the yardstick to apply.
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Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
The driver has to be liable, until the L5 system has lower error-rate than a human. For regulatory and liability reasons, it should be registered as an L2 until it's perfect. No one has ever claimed that FSD is a finished product.
> The driver has to be liable, until the L5 system has lower error-rate than a human. Which that was promised to be completed in 2020. Where are the Level 5 robotaxis that Elon was confident enough to release by that year? > For regulatory and liability reasons, it should be registered as an L2 until it's perfect. And FSD was advertised as Level 5 by Tesla and was due to be complete by 2020 deadline. Even before that…
FSD is a level 5 system, but it just has too high error rate to give it full control. It's a beta software for a level 5 system.
Level 5 means that the system is designed for autonomous driving in every situation. It's not a metric whether the system actually works. There will be multiple level 5 systems on the road some day, and some of them will make mistakes more than others. Just like all technology and software, it's impossible to make these systems perfect.
Yes, Elon overpromised and they failed to deliver in time. This was compensated by cheaper prices, just like is usual in beta programs. Today, FSD is already insanely good and can drive 99% of time without human intervention.
It's still not good enough, and it's multiple years late from original forecasts. Still, I wouldn't call it a scam. It's a delayed project with a pre-order/beta program, but given it's huge complexity and importance, I'm willing to forgive them. When it's ready, no one cares that it was a few years late.
Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
> low reliability, low build quality These are improving at an astonishing rate, like a Web app rather than a car. Yes, this means the first ones were so bad they really shouldn’t have been shipped. But the newer models (of Y especially, X hasn’t been redesigned) are really a different world.
Hot tip, ship fast and break things doesn't work when you're talking about putting out a 2 ton, gigantic battery out in the world that is expected to last for over 20 years. This is a gigantic waste. Any other company would have been crucified for putting out such a shit car, and the only reason Tesla survived it is because they had funny meme man to do damage control.
Doesn’t work in what way
Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are these outside "engineering and design" reviews from a big conflicted youtuber stockholder guy (Sandy Munroe)?
Yes, that’s one of them. What evidence do you have that he has a conflict of interest or is a shareholder?
I guess he sold after the conflict of interest criticism. Now his conflict would be in capture to his audience of Tesla megafans.
Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are these outside "engineering and design" reviews from a big conflicted youtuber stockholder guy (Sandy Munroe)?
Yes, that’s one of them. What evidence do you have that he has a conflict of interest or is a shareholder?
I've watched a lot of Munro (and even bought one of their retail reports for fun) and the thing that most bothered me that looked like tesla bias was when he was doing side-by-side stats comparisons of all of the mid-size crossovers like the id.4, mach-e, and tesla y. he kept on harping about the epa range in the comparison and never once mentioned the methodology of the epa estimate and the fact that manufacturers have a lot of leeway to conduct the test themselves - and either overreport or underreport the epa range. this was really glaring to me because tesla is known to stretch their range estimates (as do other manufacturers), but some manufacturers seem to deliberately underreport (mercedes, porsche, ford with some models of the mach-e for example). given that he's in the business of competitive analysis he HAS to know this, but he never said a word about it, which I think made tesla look a little better than it should have. it's one thing to just present the epa range and leave it at that, but he was using it as the basis for a ton of discussion and derived numbers and basically putting down the non-tesla cars... all without mentioning the limits of the number
I think this is the video I'm remembering, but he reused charts like this a lot https://youtu.be/p0kFZ9CVLNg?t=512
see this for some real-world testing, there's lots like it and the results usually skew a certain way for each car. for example, there's about a 20% delta in epa vs. tested range for the tesla y LR and mach-e standard range in his chart. the tesla artificially looks 20% better! and this delta was well-known at the time of his video https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/
to your question about conflicts of interest, owning a stock is a conflict of interest. nobody needs to show that something is happening inside his head, the circumstances exist and that's it. I think he's usually pretty good and I still watch the videos, and he trades on his reputation and I still regard him as a good source. but I'm still glad to learn that he's sold the stock
Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th
#118I recently rented a 2022 Model 3 from Hertz for 9 days. It didn't have the FSD option available, but it did have the preview of what the system would see. Based on that alone, I was alternately impressed and terrified of what the FSD experience would be like. It was mostly accurate in showing other vehicles, but some of their trajectories when turning in front of me looked like a really bad video game with weird orie…
What's the rationale for renting an EV? Isn't it more troublesome because you probably won't have a charger in whatever place your staying, so you can't charge it overnight?
I was in Sweden a couple of months ago and rented an EV. In my case the reasons were simple. The main reason is that EV's are just nicer to drive. The second reason is to save money since petrol is much more expensive than charging an EV.
Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th
#119I wouldn’t have an issue with this if the upgrade went with the car, but the idea that it turns back off when the person whose driveway it lives in changes is too close to IAPs for me. If it has an ongoing cost for Tesla, I’m happy to pay for a subscription and perhaps an activation fee. If it’s built-in to the vehicle and requires a configuration for how I like to drive, I’d love to pay an expensive, one-time setup…
If you sell your car, the software goes with it.
It WILL NOT follow you to the next car though. It’s VIN locked (which is BS, no consumer software is hardware locked like that in a normal computing space).
Re: Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th
#120Paid 7k for mine, I enjoy it. When I buy my next Tesla wouldn’t pay for it though. The thing that would make it worth buying at this price is when I can send the car 200 miles away to like go pick up my parents or something. Anything short of not being in the car though is just a party trick.
Do you actually have FSD? My understanding is most people who paid for it haven't been allowed to actually install the software yet.
The beta is out to ~100k cars in NA and growing. Not sure if they’ve sold the package elsewhere in the world but I wouldn’t bank on it coming any time (or car) soon outside of NA.