Instagram, TikTok, and the Three Trends • Hacker News Board

Re: Instagram, TikTok, and the Three Trends

#111

Post by layer8 » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 7:06 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #78

slowmovintarget wrote: post #32

The Three Trends (according to the article): 1. Medium: text -> images -> video -> 3D graphics -> VR 2. AI: time -> rank -> recommend -> generate 3. UI: click -> scroll -> tap -> swipe -> autoplay By this definition, the end of the line is a totally passive consumption of endorphin-inducing pablum that blots out the real world. (I may be exaggerating a touch.) It might stop short of a wire into the pleasure centers o…

VR is never going to be a replacement for short form video. Casual passive consumption of video benefits from being able to fit in between other activities easily. I'm never going to want an immersive experience when I have 2 minutes to kill waiting for a friend to show up at a bar - I just want easily digestible content snacks.

If/when VR becomes as easy as putting on a pair of sunglasses, then it won’t be much different from pulling your smartphone out of the pocket. Luckily, we’re probably decades away from that being feasible, on the technological front.

Re: Instagram, TikTok, and the Three Trends

#112

Post by jatins » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 7:09 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #85

rconti wrote: post #29

> I saw someone recently complaining that Facebook was recommending to them…a very crass but probably pretty hilarious video. Their indignant response [was that] “the ranking must be broken.” Here is the thing: the ranking probably isn’t broken. He probably would love that video, but the fact that in order to engage with it he would have to go proactively click makes him feel bad. He doesn’t want to see himself as th…

I absolutely loathe YouTube Face. If you've never heard of the term, it's that exaggerated, wide-eyed, often with an open-mouth, expression on most thumbnails. I know that at some psychological level it works, probably because it hijacks the part of our brain that is meant to respond to when a fellow human being in front of us makes that expression - there must be something dangerous going on behind us and we need to…

The problem is that it's not clear (at least to me) whether adding the "Youtube face" is making people click on the videos more, or is it just making YouTube push the video to a wider audience resulting in higher engagement.

Is there some way to assert "Given the same audience of X people, adding such thumbnails results in more clicks"?

Re: Instagram, TikTok, and the Three Trends

#113

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 7:11 PM UTC

stavros wrote: post #102

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your comment is both wrong and spot on. IMO the "wrong" part is that most heroin users will tell you they fucking love heroin. It makes them feel great/escape from life's problems, and users know this. The fact that users also know that heroin is destroying their lives isn't incompatible with loving it. The "spot on" part of your comment is that the addictive dynamics between social media and heroin are basic…

> IMO the "wrong" part is that most heroin users will tell you they fucking love heroin. Yeah, the analogy wasn't great there but I think the point comes across. This is very timely for me, as I've just had a day spent playing chess (and losing) for hours. I hate it, but I can't stop, because I get easily addicted to games. Luckily, I've wasted enough time on DotA to recognize the pattern, so I uninstalled the app, b…

Yep, I think the good analogy is someone on a diet. It's like the social media companies are saying "Hah, see, you say you don't want chocolate cheesecake, but you eat it every time I put it in front of you!!"

No shit sherlock, if I didn't love chocolate cheesecake I wouldn't need to be on a diet in the first place. But we need to acknowledge (as you put it, "It's easy to mistake it for enjoyment") the ability to say "Even though I am addicted to this thing, I know it's bad for me and I'm trying to stop".

Social media companies are trying to pretend (as they lie through their teeth) that there is no difference. They are modern-day drug pushers and I wish society would treat them as such. Instead of saying "Oh cool, you have that great job at Facebook" I wish we would give them the same amount of social respect we give to corner meth dealers.

Re: Instagram, TikTok, and the Three Trends

#114

Post by telchior » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 7:11 PM UTC

jrm4 wrote: post #13

andsoitis wrote: post #2

That’s because the company correctly intuited a significant gap between its users stated preference — no News Feed — and their revealed preference, which was that they liked News Feed quite a bit. The next fifteen years would prove the company right. That is also why you don't rely solely on your own preferences and behaviors for deciding what product features to build. Also interesting: 1. The Pre-Internet ‘People M…

At the risk of being overly optimistic: Number 4 is an interesting inflection point that could potentially (hopefully) sow the seeds of it's own destruction (or at least radical transformation?) Which is to say, the move from 3 to 4 strikes me as a move toward "real human interaction," owing to the fact that the "content" there is much less prepackaged Kardashianism and much more "real person sharing real thing." Hen…

I don't think that "Algorithmic Everyone", the one you're phrasing as "real human interaction" is really either everyone or real humans. Instead, it's turning a handful of Kardashians into a million Kardashians. The number of performers, and niches, vastly grows but it's still all performance.

I think that's one reason that a lot of kids love TikTok but adults generally can't stand it. Kids are looking for sources that show them how to act. TikTok is basically a giant tips channel. Here's how to be silly, here's how to dance, here's how to be a goth... It's like an enormous highschool, but if the highschool were completely made up of amateur actors trying to get the most attention.

Re: Instagram, TikTok, and the Three Trends

#115

Post by layer8 » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 7:16 PM UTC

jatins wrote: post #112

BitwiseFool wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely loathe YouTube Face. If you've never heard of the term, it's that exaggerated, wide-eyed, often with an open-mouth, expression on most thumbnails. I know that at some psychological level it works, probably because it hijacks the part of our brain that is meant to respond to when a fellow human being in front of us makes that expression - there must be something dangerous going on behind us and we need to…

The problem is that it's not clear (at least to me) whether adding the "Youtube face" is making people click on the videos more, or is it just making YouTube push the video to a wider audience resulting in higher engagement. Is there some way to assert "Given the same audience of X people, adding such thumbnails results in more clicks"?

I don’t think that the YouTube algorithm pushes videos based on their thumbnails.

Re: Instagram, TikTok, and the Three Trends

#116

Post by mbesto » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 7:26 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #81

nprz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crack seems to be a product people gravitate towards, but that doesn't mean it's a good product or beneficial for the user.

(Crack) consumers like crack. Nobody likes news feeds filled with ads.

> news feeds filled with ads.

The OP's point wasn't about ads but about the algorithmic newsfeed. The newsfeed is designed and optimized to make you like scrolling. So, yes people do like to scrolling but hate it when they realize that it might take you 20 minutes instead of 2 minutes to get to your best friends new baby announcement. Sure, ads contribute to that frustration, but they aren't the sole reason for it.

Re: Instagram, TikTok, and the Three Trends

#117

Post by mola » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 7:27 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #51

Banana699 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those are AI-generated (therefore don't have the potential massive automated scale) or auto-play.

are you sure? it sounds like the exact same playlist on every station with the same owner in the same market with such little care about the content in the playlist but only based on an algorithm. so maybe AI === brain dead corporate owners?

Yes, we already have "slow AI". It's the corporate paperclip machine. It's has a strict value function; make money to shareholders. And it will do what ever it takes to make more of it.

All these ppl scaring us with AGI are either distracting us from the clear and present dangers of slow AI so they can keep profiting from it , or are just duped by silly technooptimism.

Re: Instagram, TikTok, and the Three Trends

#118

Post by shalmanese » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 7:33 PM UTC

slowmovintarget wrote: post #32

The Three Trends (according to the article): 1. Medium: text -> images -> video -> 3D graphics -> VR 2. AI: time -> rank -> recommend -> generate 3. UI: click -> scroll -> tap -> swipe -> autoplay By this definition, the end of the line is a totally passive consumption of endorphin-inducing pablum that blots out the real world. (I may be exaggerating a touch.) It might stop short of a wire into the pleasure centers o…

The final social network will be named Tasp.

Re: Instagram, TikTok, and the Three Trends

#119

Post by cwkoss » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 7:38 PM UTC

mbesto wrote: post #116

cwkoss wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Crack) consumers like crack. Nobody likes news feeds filled with ads.

> news feeds filled with ads. The OP's point wasn't about ads but about the algorithmic newsfeed. The newsfeed is designed and optimized to make you like scrolling. So, yes people do like to scrolling but hate it when they realize that it might take you 20 minutes instead of 2 minutes to get to your best friends new baby announcement. Sure, ads contribute to that frustration, but they aren't the sole reason for it.

The key distinction is that news feeds' customers are advertisers, not the audience. News feeds were not built to maximize the audience's experience: it's an inherently consumer-adversarial technology.

Re: Instagram, TikTok, and the Three Trends

#120

Post by cwkoss » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 7:39 PM UTC

layer8 wrote: post #111

cwkoss wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR is never going to be a replacement for short form video. Casual passive consumption of video benefits from being able to fit in between other activities easily. I'm never going to want an immersive experience when I have 2 minutes to kill waiting for a friend to show up at a bar - I just want easily digestible content snacks.

If/when VR becomes as easy as putting on a pair of sunglasses, then it won’t be much different from pulling your smartphone out of the pocket. Luckily, we’re probably decades away from that being feasible, on the technological front.

VR is by its nature immersive. Immersion is inherently at odds with quick and easily digestible.

3d video served by an AR sunglass display is plausible (but probably way overkill for the next decade), but feeling like you're in an entirely different environment while waiting in line at the post office is never going to be a thing people want.