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Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

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Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#111

Post by causality0 »

dahdum wrote: post #63
causality0 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really weird how cars get a pass for so much. It's really weird how trucks get a pass from people who don't give cars a pass. If tire wear is proportional to road wear, the majority of tire-originating microplastics is from semi trucks, not commuter sedans.

I don't find trucks and commercial vehicles getting a pass all that strange, they are far more essential than passenger vehicles. I consider most roads and basically all highways as meant for them, passenger vehicles are the luxury.

Trucks suck. Even with the US' road-friendly policies, transporting goods via truck is twelve times as expensive as by rail.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#112

Post by causality0 »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #82
causality0 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really weird how cars get a pass for so much. It's really weird how trucks get a pass from people who don't give cars a pass. If tire wear is proportional to road wear, the majority of tire-originating microplastics is from semi trucks, not commuter sedans.

For people that don’t know the math behind this, it is astounding. >when you double the weight per axle, you increase the road damage by 16 times >For example, while a truck axle carrying 18,000 pounds is only 9 times heavier than a 2,000-pound automobile axle, it does 5,000 times more damage.

This is why arguments that road-maintenance taxes should be applied to BEVs and bicycles are horseshit. Everything lighter than 4,000 pounds is essentially a rounding error as far as damage to road surface goes.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#113

Post by maxerickson »

airstrike wrote: post #108
causality0 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really weird how cars get a pass for so much. It's really weird how trucks get a pass from people who don't give cars a pass. If tire wear is proportional to road wear, the majority of tire-originating microplastics is from semi trucks, not commuter sedans.

The corollary to this argument is that most environmental issues routinely blamed on individual behavior pale in comparison to the externalities from industry and commerce People talk shutting off the faucet while brushing one's teeth but ~70% of global freshwater usage comes from agriculture and ~20% from industry, with municipalities accounting for only 10%

What is freshwater usage?

My water comes out of a Great Lake and substantially ends up back in it, about as clean as it came out. It's not used up. Some energy is consumed making it potable and pumping it around, and then treating it.

Farms in the Midwest happen to catch a lot of rain, are they using freshwater in a different way than an almond orchard in California, or is it the same (my expectation is that the almond orchard is considered a user and the Midwest farm is often not).

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#114

Post by maxerickson »

causality0 wrote: post #112
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people that don’t know the math behind this, it is astounding. >when you double the weight per axle, you increase the road damage by 16 times >For example, while a truck axle carrying 18,000 pounds is only 9 times heavier than a 2,000-pound automobile axle, it does 5,000 times more damage.

This is why arguments that road-maintenance taxes should be applied to BEVs and bicycles are horseshit. Everything lighter than 4,000 pounds is essentially a rounding error as far as damage to road surface goes.

Is the argument that they are responsible for road damage, or is the argument that they are likely to pay the tax and keep the road maintained?

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#115

Post by ch4s3 »

b112 wrote: post #107
ch4s3 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The can protect sensitive teeth, prevent smearing of makeup, make it easier to drink while walking, help prevent spills of colored liquids onto stainable shirts, help modulate the speed at which you are drinking, keep ice from hitting your teeth, make it easier to finish think drinks like shakes, allow people who are convalescing to drink easily, and probably some things I didn’t think of.

probably some things I didn’t think of. Spitballs, as a kid.

Sure, entertainment I guess. You can also use a bendy straw to shotgun a beer.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#116

Post by elihu »

trident5000 wrote: post #91

Edit: wrong math, disregard Not to downplay this issue (its important). But I sort of dont believe the estimates. Theres 4.6 million fishing vessles globally. That would be 22 tonnes per vessel or 46,000 pounds. I dont see 1 vessel producing 46k pounds of plastic waste per year unless they are literally dumping their fishing nets into the ocean purposefully and repeatedly.

100 million pounds divided by 4.6 million fishing vessels is about 22 pounds per year. I think you confused tons with pounds.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#117

Post by jandrese »

pcj-github wrote: post #46

100 million pounds of lost gear by the fishing industry is such a ridiculous underestimate that, judging by some of the comments here, make people believe this number to be somehow OK. The fishing industry has been dodging responsibility for ocean pollution and habitat destruction for forever, good to see more research that people can use to put pressure on them to actually give a s** and change their ways.

The crazy part about this is how this is the fishermen shitting where they are eating. All of the ocean pollution contributes directly to collapsing fish populations, which puts them right out of a job. Why doesn't the appeal of "if you keep doing what you're doing you won't be able to keep fishing, and your children definitely won't be fishermen" work?

I get that they are trapped in the cycle of overfishing, but it seems like cutting back on the pollution is a first step everybody could take.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#118

Post by noahtallen »

maxerickson wrote: post #113
airstrike wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The corollary to this argument is that most environmental issues routinely blamed on individual behavior pale in comparison to the externalities from industry and commerce People talk shutting off the faucet while brushing one's teeth but ~70% of global freshwater usage comes from agriculture and ~20% from industry, with municipalities accounting for only 10%

What is freshwater usage? My water comes out of a Great Lake and substantially ends up back in it, about as clean as it came out. It's not used up. Some energy is consumed making it potable and pumping it around, and then treating it. Farms in the Midwest happen to catch a lot of rain, are they using freshwater in a different way than an almond orchard in California, or is it the same (my expectation is that the almo…

Completely different scenarios, right? The rainy parts of the Midwest aren’t in a drought which makes water consumption important to track. California is.

Anyways, they do use in freshwater differently. Where I grew up in NW Ohio, there is practically no irrigation. It rains enough there’s no need. Freshwater use is passive, in other words. Out west, farms have to actively pump water to irrigate since there’s not enough rain. They can control how much freshwater they take out of the water source in a way the Midwest farmer can’t.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#119

Post by trident5000 »

elihu wrote: post #116
trident5000 wrote: post #91

Edit: wrong math, disregard Not to downplay this issue (its important). But I sort of dont believe the estimates. Theres 4.6 million fishing vessles globally. That would be 22 tonnes per vessel or 46,000 pounds. I dont see 1 vessel producing 46k pounds of plastic waste per year unless they are literally dumping their fishing nets into the ocean purposefully and repeatedly.

100 million pounds divided by 4.6 million fishing vessels is about 22 pounds per year. I think you confused tons with pounds.

Shoot you're right.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#120

Post by hnick »

causality0 wrote: post #112
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people that don’t know the math behind this, it is astounding. >when you double the weight per axle, you increase the road damage by 16 times >For example, while a truck axle carrying 18,000 pounds is only 9 times heavier than a 2,000-pound automobile axle, it does 5,000 times more damage.

This is why arguments that road-maintenance taxes should be applied to BEVs and bicycles are horseshit. Everything lighter than 4,000 pounds is essentially a rounding error as far as damage to road surface goes.

Wouldn't this in effect add a regressive tax to staple products like bread and flour, which are transported by trucks and would require raised prices to be passed on? I'd be interested in seeing the numbers and what price rise if any would be expected.
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