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Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

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Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#111

Post by solar-ice »

mgraczyk wrote: post #51

Sounds like blatant protectionism to me. If I'm reading the ruling correctly, the relevant legal standard applied here is completely bogus. They find that it is a violation of GDPR because the parent company could access the data, in principle if they wanted to. It doesn't matter if there are safeguards, technical, or institutional preventions in place. However, the exact same argument applies to any EU company with…

> However, the exact same argument applies to any EU company with any internet connection, and directly applies to any EU company with infrastructure in the US. EU companies could, in principle, transfer data to the US intentionally or by accident.

Yes, this might be a reasonable argument. You'd be in a bad place as an EU company trying to operate in the US right now. Perhaps the US should quit passing spy law and we can go back to cooperating.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#112

Post by Ekaros »

arlort wrote: post #106
jiggywiggy wrote: post #33

Yeah wondering about the consequences. By this logic almost every non-EU Saas would be forbidden. For sure Stripe is also not allowed, huge amount of customer data in US hands.

> non-EU The problem isn't non EU services, it's the US CLOUD act Other countries have legal systems which are considered as offering equivalent protection: > The European Commission has so far recognised Andorra, Argentina, Canada (commercial organisations), Faroe Islands, Guernsey, Israel, Isle of Man, Japan, Jersey, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Switzerland , the United Kingdom under the GDPR and the LED, and Ur…

Uruguay? I wouldn't exactly call them for known being a tech nation...

So why does USA fail at this? Or are they just too big and diverse for that sort of stuff? And you can't really expect such nation to succeed... In anything...

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#113

Post by blocked_again »

lizardactivist wrote: post #86
blocked_again wrote: post #75

I think this kind of affirms the general opinion that Germany and many traditionally powerful European countries is doing poorly when it comes to modern tech. What went wrong with Germany and Europe? They used to be the front runners in tech once upon a time.

"European countries doing poorly when it comes to modern tech" has never been an opinion. You're confused, and your petty vindictiveness is unmotivated. The EU as a space of commerce is not yours to do with as you wish. You have to follow rules and regulations just like our own companies have to. And if your country had not been engaging in espionage and sabotage then there would never have been a need for these "unf…

No post body was provided.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#114

Post by eli »

throwaway4good wrote: post #76

Hey America - stop spying on our our citizens or we will stop buying your tech. Seriously. We talk about this cloud stuff like it is rocket science. It is not. It is a box in a basement. We are capable of doing that ourselves. And no. It ain’t cool for NSA to sniff around some German governmental software, even though you are the good guys and on our side.

Isn't it easier for the NSA to spy on foreign companies than US companies? There are restrictions on how they can operate on US soil.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#115

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway4good wrote: post #91
blocked_again wrote: post #75

I think this kind of affirms the general opinion that Germany and many traditionally powerful European countries is doing poorly when it comes to modern tech. What went wrong with Germany and Europe? They used to be the front runners in tech once upon a time.

The surveillance capitalism model is a non-starter in the EU.

[deleted]

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#116

Post by xyzzyz »

solar-ice wrote: post #88
xyzzyz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The warrant is due process.

The procedure and requirements for obtaining a warrant under the CLOUD Act is not sufficient due process according to EU law - which is law which matters when operating a commercial business in the EU.

Sure, and US can pass a law saying that safety regulations of Airbus planes made in France are not sufficient either. Americans just don’t like flying in unsafe planes!

If you talk to actual people in Europe, outside of HN, you’ll find that overwhelming majority of people do not give a flying fuck about the “safety of their data” from US government. They just blissfully post shit on Facebook with no care in the world. This matter is a concern mostly to politicians and to activist hacker types.

This is not to say that this is not a valid concern to have, but I’d like people to spare me pretending that it’s about politicians caring about people’s rights, when just past few years they trampled all the rights in the interest of fighting coronavirus (and if you want to argue that it was all worth it, because the goal justified the means, keep in mind that the US government can say the exact same thing about its data access!). This is just standard power politics, a protectionist trade war whitewashed with talk about “rights” and “privacy”, only surprising thing is how people on HN are gobbling it up. I guess maybe that’s just willful ignorance - by pretending you don’t understand why EU actually attacks American companies like that, you might actually get some extra privacy protections you care about.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#117

Post by nickff »

superchroma wrote: post #66
jiggywiggy wrote: post #33

Yeah wondering about the consequences. By this logic almost every non-EU Saas would be forbidden. For sure Stripe is also not allowed, huge amount of customer data in US hands.

IMO that could be good, I would welcome more competition in the payment processor space.

But this won't encourage more competition in the EU, it will limit the number of competitors by creating an insurmountable barrier to entry for foreign providers. This is akin to import controls, which often cause stagnation, and generally lead to more costly and inferior goods.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#118

Post by chrisseaton »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #60
chrisseaton wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the internet was invented here In Europe?

Well the Web if you prefer.

They're two different things. The Internet was invented in the US. I'm European as well, but not sure why you'd need to overreach to claim we invented the Internet.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#119

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

blocked_again wrote: post #75

I think this kind of affirms the general opinion that Germany and many traditionally powerful European countries is doing poorly when it comes to modern tech. What went wrong with Germany and Europe? They used to be the front runners in tech once upon a time.

LOL, they never were. Germans are conservative. Try to pay by card in a shop/restaurant outside bigger German city. Either not possible, cash only, or you can use some local EC card, which only Germans are using. Rest of EU is using Visa / Master card.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#120

Post by lispm »

jtwaleson wrote: post #81
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you are aware that "the cloud" is not some secret, mysterious piece of technology that the EU can't figure out. We have software engineers as well as data centers and EU-based cloud companies. Digital consumer networks were established here long before the U.S and the internet was invented here. Your arrogance is grating.

I'm European and I'll happily admit there is no EU alternative to AWS, GCP, Azure. The breadth of services _on_, and the amount of engineers able to work _with_ these platforms is incredible and can't be beat by the likes of Hetzner and OVH. We are so behind that we won't catch up. The arrogance is warranted in this case. I like privacy, but the business person in me is very frustrated by these GDPR rulings as they m…

Lidl: https://www.stackit.de/en/
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