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The endless search for a crypto use case

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Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#111

Post by JamesBarney »

anonymoushn wrote: post #72

Currently we've hired more than 0 people through a global outsourcing company. The outsourcing company sends us invoices, we wire them dollars, they charge us 3% on top of extremely bad forex rates plus 10% for their services, then a local company who's hired "our staff" processes payroll, pays local taxes and insurance, etc. The whole process of getting the money to the recipient takes days to a month. Currently we…

It seems like the majority of the cost savings is due to skipping outsourcing and a company that pays local taxes and insurance.

The only times I've transferred dollars -> crypto -> transfer -> crypto -> foreign currency the costs were much higher than 3%, not to mention there was far more risk because you couldn't reverse the transactions if you fat fingers an amount or a recipient.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#112

Post by nmilo »

The author somehow misses the number one use case of crypto: as a currency. You can buy things with Bitcoin right now. Therefore each bitcoin has a value. You can move bitcoins around to move value around. Simple as that.

The only problem is that, yes, it is indeed early. I don't know why the author brings up the App Store, as if both Bitcoin and the iPhone App Store are even remotely comparable just because they came out in the same year. You can't expect to upend the global financial system in less than 15 years, give it some time. People are hitting the limits of international banking and quickly moving to crypto as an alternative. And as the hyperconnected cryptobro kids today become wealthy millionaires in a few decades, I expect a lot of value to be stored internationally in crypto.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#113

Post by ForrestN »

jmyeet wrote: post #10
snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

So illegal stuff. Ok. While there might be cases you consider moral or ethical even though they’re illegal I’m not sure I’d consider this a net positive or any reason to think crypto will enjoy mass adoption.

Yes. It's not a compelling argument that something can be used well for crimes. If cryptocurrency is just John Wick tokens, it not only isn't useful to most people, but further it's anti-useful to society in general and will likely be suppressed.

It's also hard for me to understand these "payment outside of X authority system" ideas when the value shifts so wildly and so unpredictably. No one wants to get paid, not even criminals, in a currency that might be worth 20% less tomorrow, depending on what's going on with Matt Damon's Super Bowl ad for the criminal currency or whatever.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#114

Post by monetus »

latchkey wrote: post #5

> In crypto, on the other hand, you can speculate on shitcoins and make bets in DeFi, and that’s about it. Giant long article and only one small mention of DeFi (which I'd argue is a great use case, despite all the hacks going on) and it isn't even accurate. DeFi isn't about betting.

Not being in the space myself - can you generalize the whole thing by saying it is about any one thing? Speculative asset appreciation seemed to mostly be what drove people to it. Curious about the good emergent behaviors, as the bad ones are literally advertising themselves.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#115

Post by olalonde »

JohnFen wrote: post #73
olalonde wrote: post #14

To me, the fact that Bitcoin is a money out of the hands of governments, or anyone really, is the use case. It's also cool that you can use your brain to effectively store your money. Of course, if you believe that governments are good stewards of money, you will probably not find a use case.

The problem, though, is that you give up the benefits of working within a regulated system. Things like being able to stop or reverse mistaken or fraudulent transfers, protections from fraud, protections from whoever is handling your money for you (with crypto, someone is still handling your money for you) going out of business, etc. Everything has an upside and a downside. But in the regulated system, you at least h…

By government's hands being out of Bitcoin, I was mostly referring to its fixed money supply and the fact that its "permissionless", like cash.

> Things like being able to stop or reverse mistaken or fraudulent transfers, protections from fraud, protections from whoever is handling your money for you (with crypto, someone is still handling your money for you) going out of business, etc.

That's only true when you do on-chain transactions, or in the case of fiat, when you pay with cash. If you worry about dispute arbitration, you could use the same dispute arbitration services that exist for fiat. For example, I don't see a reason why payment networks like Visa or Mastercard couldn't add support for Bitcoin eventually. You'd still get a currency that can't be arbitrarily debased and that you can easily transfer on and off the payment network.

As a side note, a lot of Bitcoiners would hate me for saying the above. A large chunk of the community believes that everything needs to be decentralized and it has probably hindered adoption.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#116

Post by rahimnathwani »

amanj41 wrote: post #51
rahimnathwani wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people receiving remittances need fiat money. For amounts under ~$500, cryptocurrency off-ramps are often less convenient and more expensive than an international cash-to-cash remittance with Western Union or Moneygram.

I have no problem with properly regulated stablecoins (and hoping they come about soon). Blockchains are only necessary for one thing and that is cryptocurrency. Doesn't matter if that currency happens to be a digital representation of EUR or USD or whatever. If you think they're more expensive to use than centralized providers, you're probably using ethereum or bitcoin. I can send USDC on Algorand in any quantity fo…

When I said 'fiat money', I meant stuff that you can use to buy things in a store. I live in a city that has a large blockchain community, but I'm not aware of any physical retailers that accept payment in USDC.

I imagine folks receiving remittances in Manila, Mexico City, Nairobi, Delhi etc. would have difficulty using stablecoins (whether backed or algorithmic) to buy food and other necessities.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#117

Post by Aunche »

silentsea90 wrote: post #61
snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

The biggest use case for Bitcoin is of it being an escape from arbitrary printing of money by central banks. The richer your home country, the further you are from intuitively grasping how catastrophic printing is in the long run.

Bitcoin isn't immune to money printing at all. The value of Bitcoin comes from people using it as a speculatory vehicle rather than a medium of exchange of goods and services. If the price of a commodity like rice hyperinflates, this does nothing to the price of Bitcoin because nobody uses Bitcoin to buy rice. As a result, the price of Bitcoin would inflate at the same rate as the underlying fiat used to exchange Bitcoin.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#118

Post by 676234e117 »

aerovistae wrote: post #101
anonymoushn wrote: post #72

Currently we've hired more than 0 people through a global outsourcing company. The outsourcing company sends us invoices, we wire them dollars, they charge us 3% on top of extremely bad forex rates plus 10% for their services, then a local company who's hired "our staff" processes payroll, pays local taxes and insurance, etc. The whole process of getting the money to the recipient takes days to a month. Currently we…

The specifier "more than 0" strikes me as odd. Both sentences would have been the same without it. > we've hired people through a global outsourcing company > we have staff who have been displaced by a war

Maybe it is just 1 recipient. Which I think is still a fine display of the value of a decentralized payment option.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#119

Post by permo-w »

immigrantheart wrote: post #99
game-of-throws wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that the likelihood someone understands the use cases is inversely correlated to their trust in government. For example: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60912789 These articles all follow a common pattern. 1. The trigger – Inflation/distrust in government/bank withdrawal restrictions/paypal freezes your funds/country is at war/etc 2. The response – People gravitate towards a system that is resilient to…

This is the only right answer. Pack it up. For real, every time I try to answer my I do crypto, often people just don't understand. They just don't. They just don't understand why I don't trust entities. If you don't understand this, then you don't understand crypto. Period. There is no other debate necessary. Period. Full stop. We go on our own way. Full stop.

I fail to see how a currency that a) requires internet access, and b) can fluctuate so massively over the course of a few months, is any kind of solution to instability in developing countries. crypto is also arguably as or even more at the whim of national governments. look at what happened when China banned it. they're not gonna be banning dollars or gold anytime soon.

also, perhaps the cause of people not understanding you is not some kind of lack of mental faculties on their part, but your - what I would describe as - extremely obnoxious style of communication

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#120

Post by iRomain »

I stopped reading after « with nary a mainstream use case to show for it other than drugs and ransomware »

Wether you like them or not, DEFI, ICOs and NFTs are all very valid use cases which attracted people with backgrounds different enough that we can call it mainstream. Yes you can do pretty much all of them without blockchain but so can you with drugs and ransomware. I don’t know what is it with crypto that it generates so much extremism in both sides.

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