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Linux 5.19

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Re: Linux 5.19

#111

Post by Meltion3 »

necovek wrote: post #100
nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

> it seems like MacBooks could easily end up becoming the laptop of choice for Linux developers in the years to come. Having used MacBook Pro 14" with an M1 Max for ~6 months, I'd really wonder which developer submits themselves to such a glare-emitting screen and crappy keyboard (and potentially imprinting their palms/wrists on the sharp front edge), if you can get a Thinkpad X1 Carbon for much less? Sure, performan…

I was surprised about this hard edge as well.

But as I only use it on a docking station, all good.

Re: Linux 5.19

#112

Post by mattl »

colomon wrote: post #101

Nothing against the Asahi team, it sounds like they're doing fantastic work. But I'm a little surprised at the talk (which I've seen before) which indicates theirs is the first approach allowing you to use Linux on ARM Macs. A few months ago I used UTM Virtual Machines (which itself uses QEMU) to get ARM Linux up and running on my M1 Mini, and it worked brilliantly. Admittedly I only use the command line interface fo…

They have desktop Linux running, not only the command line. Apple has also been making changes to help Asahi.

Re: Linux 5.19

#113

Post by dm319 »

RL_Quine wrote: post #76
vbernat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a regular Lenovo laptop, everything likely works out of the box with an upstream kernel. This quite not the case yet with Asahi Linux which does not support power management, no USB, no sound. There was a time where Apple laptops came with very good Linux support. It was the time were every bit of hardware support was present in Darwin (a 12" iBook G3 was working flawlessly with Linux for example). I thin…

Nonsense. The 10th gen X1 Carbon has basically nothing functional unless you are running master kernel, and even then it's not completely there. It's just an unusable paperweight at the moment, the OLED screen is pretty though.

As a long-time Thinkpad user, it usually helps to not go for the latest/greatest, but even so, the time between release and 99% working linux is in the region of months with Thinkpads, whereas it can be years-never with Mac.

I had some issues with my AMD X13 when getting it new - but they weren't show-stopping, just annoying, and they got ironed out over the next 6 months.

Re: Linux 5.19

#114

Post by mattl »

ztrww wrote: post #109
rowanG077 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia is actively hostile. Apple is slightly willing to get Linux to work. It's not comperable.

Apple provides no documentation or any other resources. Nvidia at least provides their closed source drivers and has put in some effort in open sourcing some parts of them. Obviously Nvidia is not great but it is still much, much better than Apple which just totally ignores Linux and there is no guarantee some exec might decide that they need to patch the ‘security holes’ which allow Linux to even run on m1 at some p…

I believe Apple has been making changes to actively support the Asahi community in regards to bootloaders and such.

Re: Linux 5.19

#115

Post by School-Cotton »

nicce wrote: post #23
moonbas3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first number being changed doesn't mean anything in particular, it's just like another release. Check the release post for 5.0: https://lkml.org/lkml/2019/3/3/236

So we can conclude, that the the big star of open source is not enforcing the child of open source :( Ref SemVer: https://semver.org/

I find it irritating when people quote semver like it’s some kind of law.

It’s a random protocol someone came up with that some other people decided to follow. It’s nowhere near a de facto standard for version numbers: plenty of software has non-semver version numbers (in fact, this applies to all software I have worked on so far in my career!)

Re: Linux 5.19

#116

Post by motoboi »

nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

The best Linux support is always where most Linux developers work on.

This seems like obvious but really is not.

As long MacBooks keep being the insane machines they now are, they will soon become (and keep being) the best Linux machines available.

Just because people will make sure of that.

Re: Linux 5.19

#117

Post by Gigachad »

nivenkos wrote: post #38
manholio wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MacBooks could easily end up becoming the laptop of choice for Linux developers That is, if they want to subsidize with their own wallets the dominance of consumer-hostile computing that open source was created to avert. Except for development such as this here, which aims at liberating users from a closed platform, I would have a philosophical problem to buy such hardware purely for my convenience. Let's not fool…

Yeah, if you can afford a Macbook, you can afford a Framework.

The framework is not at all competitive with a MacBook.

Re: Linux 5.19

#118

Post by a3w »

Lukasa wrote: post #11
a3w wrote: post #8

Linus' third time using ARM64, once ``a decade+ ago when the Macbook Air was the only real thin-and-lite [machine] around'', confuses me. The original Macbook Air and successor a decade ago used Intel IIRC? Wikipedia agrees with my memory.

Quoting directly from the text: > It's the third time I'm using Apple hardware for Linux development No mention of ARM64 there.

Oh, I misinterepreted. How do I delete my old posting...

Although Apple branded hardware is not apple developed hardware, so I read that in a different way. But now I realize that PowerPC was not an Apple Development, too, so he means Apple branding. So in my head, this is his first time of using Apple hardware (CPU, not keyboard, casing, etc.) for kernel compilation.

Thanks Apple for insisting that "this is the first Apple hardware" for clamshell laptops in your PR statements.

Re: Linux 5.19

#119

Post by bodge5000 »

nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

I wonder if its possible to dual boot the M1/M2 macs? Having a laptop running both Asahi and MacOS would be pretty fantastic (although my understanding is that application support is still early days)

Re: Linux 5.19

#120

Post by bodge5000 »

necovek wrote: post #92
vbernat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a regular Lenovo laptop, everything likely works out of the box with an upstream kernel. This quite not the case yet with Asahi Linux which does not support power management, no USB, no sound. There was a time where Apple laptops came with very good Linux support. It was the time were every bit of hardware support was present in Darwin (a 12" iBook G3 was working flawlessly with Linux for example). I thin…

While I am a devoted fan of Thinkpad laptops (they are better than Apple MacBooks because of — at least as an option — non-glare screens, keyboards and soft-touch non-wrist-cutting palmrest: two/three most important factors for a portable machine imho), that's only partially true, and rarely with a new generation of hardware. Eg. I remember getting Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th gen early on in the cycle (I've also got 5th a…

Yeh same for me, I'm a big thinkpad fan (I own 5 of them, 7 if you include the ones I broke in attempts to do some outlandish mods), but I do occasionally find issues out the box, though that can be down to the distro you use as well.

That being said, an imperfect out the box experience just gives me an excuse to get another (old) thinkpad, so every cloud

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