Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired • Hacker News Board

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#111

Post by pavel_lishin » Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 6:55 PM UTC

api wrote: post #88

egor83 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We do some investigation and find out that this guy's name is on over a dozen defunct LLCs. > we come to find out that he'd been sued multiple times by previous partners Is there a way to find out about this in advance? Some kind of database to check who you deal with prior to starting business with them?

Some of this stuff is public info. The head of our firm should have probably done more checking. But there are limits, of course, and it's a pain and can be expensive. A database of the sort that you suggest is prohibited by libel and slander laws. You'd instantly be sued. While libel and slander laws serve useful purposes, they also serve to prevent people from warning each other about predators. If you say "hey, th…

How did you find out about his associations in the end? Is it something that, say, a hired private detective could have uncovered?

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#112

Post by JGailor » Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 6:55 PM UTC

I'm a little surprised I haven't seen this on TechCrunch yet.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#113

Post by Androsynth » Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 6:55 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #76

Wait a minute. What just a damn minute, here. Are you telling me that a company that cheerfully built itself on shady shit like un-removable browser toolbars might continue screwing anyone it wants in the furtherance of its leaders' avarice? I am shocked. Look, it's endearing when people have scrappy stories about their origins. We all act out of desperate vigor when we're up against the wall and far from our goals.…

Is it ever that simple? How can you know a person's moral character just through a job interview? What about if you were Zynga employee #50 and Pincus didn't even interview you, but the company wasn't big enough for TC to post about it's shadiness? What if an honest man gets tempted by 9 figures in a once in a lifetime situation?

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#114

Post by api » Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 6:56 PM UTC

goatforce5 wrote: post #101

api wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is risk associated with working for a startup. Risk that you will suddenly lose your job. Risk that you will lose your health insurance two days before one of your kids requires an operation. It's a level of risk that doesn't exist if you work for the government or some big mega-corp. There's also a level of buy-in that startups demand. You're asked to make it more than "just a job." Even the guy mopping the da…

> Even the guy mopping the damn floor is asked to mop it until it shines, just because "we're all in this together." Guy I used to work for said one of his proudest moments was hearing the receptionist at the company he had founded was able to buy a house outright with cash from the proceeds of her stock options.

Sounds like he didn't "have what it takes."

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#115

Post by barefoot » Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 6:56 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #76

Wait a minute. What just a damn minute, here. Are you telling me that a company that cheerfully built itself on shady shit like un-removable browser toolbars might continue screwing anyone it wants in the furtherance of its leaders' avarice? I am shocked. Look, it's endearing when people have scrappy stories about their origins. We all act out of desperate vigor when we're up against the wall and far from our goals.…

This was really well written, thanks.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#116

Post by pavel_lishin » Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 6:58 PM UTC

johngalt wrote: post #86

joshAg wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as an executive, do you think that zynga's executive team gave any thought to the bad press this might generate and the talent that this might scare away? From my perspective, this sort of thing scares me away from companies, because they might do it again in the future.

It's not like Zynga will have another IPO in the future, or will need to promise future employees equity. Precisely why "trust" should never be a part of an equity negotiation. When millions are on the table people will do whatever they can get away with. Zynga doesn't want another "google chef", but they took full advantage of the "google chef" when promising equity to early employees.

> It's not like Zynga will have another IPO in the future, or will need to promise future employees equity.

No, but they probably will be promising employees something - and now, everyone knows that unless that promise is in writing, in an iron-clad contract peered over by Hell's best lawyers, it's worthless at best.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#117

Post by alexmr » Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 6:58 PM UTC

ggchappell wrote: post #104

One of the paragraphs in this article is mysterious: > The Journal cited two employees--one who has left Zynga and another that still works with the company--who hired attorneys to reach a settlement that saw them give up some, but not all, of the unvested shares. Why would a former employee give up shares? Current employees were threatened with firing. But I don't see what hold Zynga has over this person. Why not ju…

I read that as one employee left after the threat was made, and the other stayed.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#118

Post by alexmr » Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 6:58 PM UTC

ggchappell wrote: post #104

One of the paragraphs in this article is mysterious: > The Journal cited two employees--one who has left Zynga and another that still works with the company--who hired attorneys to reach a settlement that saw them give up some, but not all, of the unvested shares. Why would a former employee give up shares? Current employees were threatened with firing. But I don't see what hold Zynga has over this person. Why not ju…

I read that as one employee left after the threat was made, and the other stayed.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#119

Post by kls » Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 6:59 PM UTC

prostoalex wrote: post #81

kls wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IT is not a valid reason to reclaim unvested stock, those are looked at like current compensation when termination is unjust. You cant terminate someone just to unvest them. That being said, I always draw a line through and contract that says that I loose vesting on termination, and change it to all options become instantly vested on termination. IF they want to negotiate as to when the options will be awarded to ens…

contract that says that I loose vesting on termination, and change it to all options become instantly vested on termination Curious which companies do that. Are you talking about 83(b) election, or were you really able to convince companies to instantly vest upon termination?

I rewrite the contract so that all options that have been granted but not vested, vest on termination. I was bite by this one and learned my lesson, I have also been bit by dilution, you pick these things up along the way. If they do not agree to vest on termination then we go back to salary negotiation or I walk. To me if they can terminate you and snatch back millions, it's just to big of a carrot to do so, as well that's all it is, is just a carrot if they can at any time deprive you of it.

So basicly I write it to secure what a good company wants, A pair of handcuffs chaining me to a position, but I ensure that once I have completed my time, they can't deprive me of that rightfully earned compensation, I do this by adding a clause that all awards vest on termination, nothing complex not a bunch of legalize just all options vest and the clause overrides any and all other verbiage related to the matter in any other section of the contract.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#120

Post by ohyes » Thu, Nov 10, 2011, 7:04 PM UTC

lemming wrote: post #80

ohyes wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is totally true. Your employer is not there to do you any favors. Most likely, they will knife you in the back the minute they get the chance.

This is utter bullshit. And if it's not, anyone reading HN has better options. Let's stop with the all-employers-are-out-to-screw-you rhetoric because it's clearly not true.

I agree. It is a bullshit situation, and you should be mad about it.

Employers have a responsibility to maximize the profits of their shareholders/investors.

They are not there to be your friend, take care of you, or compensate you beyond the minimum that they have to. Companies that offer bonuses/'benefits' are doing so as an incentive to retain you. The minute the market indicates that they can pull any of those benefits, they will.

MegaCorp does not give a holiday bonus out of the goodness of its heart. It doesn't have a heart, it is an inanimate object. It can not possibly feel a loyalty to you. It may bullshit you by telling you this, but that is really just to embiggen your feelings of loyalty towards it.

It has rules and structures, carefully laid out towards its goal... maximizing profits. An optimally designed corporation will fire you the minute that there is a cheaper alternative to your employment. If it were human, it would be a sociopath.