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Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

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Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#111

Post by ekianjo »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #97
ekianjo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If everyone gets paid tomorrow 100 USD/hour, everything around you will start costing 10x more. Look at Switzerland.

While I do agree in principle that rapidly increasing wages leads to price inflation, your reference does not relate to my experience in Switzerland (most recently was there on Saturday and will spend the next few days there starting tomorrow.)

> your reference does not relate to my experience in Switzerland

Living in Switzerland is clearly way more expensive than living in any of its close neighbors, so please explain me how this is not related to higher wages.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#113

Post by coldpie »

mistrial9 wrote: post #82
coldpie wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mom was a negotiator for the teacher's union for about a decade. She was a para-professional, working with disabled students, for about 20 years. You should try talking with the people you are making claims about. I bet they're very different from what you think.

I suspect your Mom is an extra-ordinary super-hero sort, and more power to her. However, here in the Western USA, urban public schools are a disaster -- the bigger the district, the bigger the disaster -- and the union is not innocent in continuing that. no easy answers

100 percent agreed there are no easy answers. I was arguing against the pointless emotional rhetorical garbage like "professional bureaucrats" and "holding children hostage". No, not everything is perfect, but the solution to that is to find and address real problems, not scream stupid insults until everything falls apart.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#114

Post by hellotomyrars »

oldjavacoder wrote: post #20

Quoted post unavailable.

The union I am a member of more than doubled the wages of its members after its first 12 years of existence. Crucially it also ensures twice yearly cost of living adjustments.

Turns out if the Union wasn't there I'd have a lot less freedom in the form of disposable income. I prefer not living paycheck-to-paycheck, thanks.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#115

Post by bandyaboot »

nxmnxm99 wrote: post #43
photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

[flagged]

You’re right that higher labor costs will cause higher prices rather than lowering of stratospheric executive compensation. But, it sounds like you’re suggesting that this is some sort of intrinsic property of an efficient market. In reality the status quo prioritizes personal greed over efficient markets.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#116

Post by bufferoverflow »

photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

Or Amazon will push for more automation and they will all lose their jobs.

Right now these workers work at Amazon, because that's the best paying job they can find.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#117

Post by denton-scratch »

GuB-42 wrote: post #84
photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

> Yes, that means less for the executives and shareholders. They may have to sell some of their properties, oh dear. Is it what usually happens when workers unionize? It seems like most of the times, the result is a higher price for the customer, at least when things go well.

> It seems like most of the times, the result is a higher price for the customer, at least when things go well.

Sure. So the customer buys less product, the company makes less profit, and the shareholders eject the executives.

But there are huge delays in these chains of causation, which provide opportunities for arbitrage.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#118

Post by tialaramex »

GuB-42 wrote: post #84
photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

> Yes, that means less for the executives and shareholders. They may have to sell some of their properties, oh dear. Is it what usually happens when workers unionize? It seems like most of the times, the result is a higher price for the customer, at least when things go well.

If the customer would pay the higher price, why not raise the price and "capture" this market inefficiency in the form of more yachts for the executives ?

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#119

Post by jefftk »

tjoff wrote: post #17
capableweb wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the comment that Amazon is fucking nasty, but I don't think a comment just stating that is adding a lot to the conversation. More well thought out comments are usually more interesting, so I'd downvote it myself for that, even though I do agree with the sentiment.

I agree, though I don't agree with the shadowban (if I'm right about that).

Looking back over their comment history, I do think a shadowban is appropriate. There are lots of inflammatory and mean comments, and very little actual contribution.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#120

Post by mswift42 »

GuB-42 wrote: post #84
photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

> Yes, that means less for the executives and shareholders. They may have to sell some of their properties, oh dear. Is it what usually happens when workers unionize? It seems like most of the times, the result is a higher price for the customer, at least when things go well.

> It seems like most of the times, the result is a higher price for the customer, at least when things go well.

Can you substantiate this claim?

With the vast majority of goods the price is set by the market, i.e. higher wages would indeed result in a smaller profit margin and not in a higher price.

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