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The Knife Maker

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111–120 of 199 posts

Re: The Knife Maker

#111
These comments are so fascinating because they illustrate with a fair degree of uniformity, the personality profile of the HN crowd.

Two kinds of people we're all aware of: logical/rational vs. emotional/creative. That whole left vs. right brain stuff.

Remember, you need to think with both points of view to tackle the big consumer tech problems (where a looooot of the $$$ is) in the coming years... so

Re: The Knife Maker

#112

The part that struck me was when he said something along the lines of: It takes 10,000 (or 15,000) hours just to get the necessary knowledge. Then, you are at step one. You may or may not be good, but don't know until you've put in the required time. Also, the immediate authenticity I felt by this man and this story is something amazing. Great way to start my day.

yeah, and then he said he got the knife in his hand for 15 hours and that is different from 10 robots in Germany. He should come to Solingen, no kitchen knife is made by robots, it's done by experts and I'm sure they got knowledge which he can't have created in one life alone. When he is able to make a razor knife that could cut his beard, then come back to me ..

Re: The Knife Maker

#113
post #4

I don't totally get the thought that handmade is always better. Specifically, reminds me of a skit from Portlandia (IFC) about hand made light bulbs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P85vZpYF3Yg .

> I don't totally get the thought that handmade is always better. This. I live in a 3rd world country (Brazil) and see a lot of truth in what you say. This film talks about art, not about consistent production of quality. Take a man with passion, resources, intelligence and immense dedication and he will produce a work of high quality; doesn't matter if it is shoes, painting, engineering, suits or knives. But it just…

* cheap and good enough is what almost everyone wants.*

The key word was almost.

Some people are willing to pay much more for something that is hand-made by a craftsman, even when there is something that is as good (or even better!) made by a factory. Their willingness to pay goes up dramatically if the craftsman is well known and signs or stamps his work, and can also go up if the craftsman in some engages directly with the buyers and the buyers can get to know the craftsman. Many value the authenticity and the connection to the craftsman. Some, in the right context, value being able to show the object and say "This was hand-crafted by xxx".

That is why, even though swords hardly ever see practical use anymore and you could get a machine to manufacture a sword to high standards you still have a few skilled craftsmen making a living hand-forging swords. Similarly, you can get software to play Go for free, a cardboard Go-board that works well enough for $25, and a decent bamboo machine-made set for under $100. But there are still plenty of people paying substantially (sometimes very substantially) over $1000 for a hand-carved Goban made of kaya wood.

I do not think this trend will change any time soon.

Re: The Knife Maker

#114
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is as straightforward as that. Imagine you're learning chess and you have a chess master as your teacher, you are going to annihilate someone who has putted the same amount of time, even more, but who doesn't have such a good teacher.

Yeah, the original states that the practice must be deliberate. Of course, generally better practice would prevail.

And that little side-note unravels the whole argument: how much better can practice be? Can it be so focused that one reaches mastery in 5k hours? 1k? To what degree is being a fast learner in a field a talent?

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/08/training-talent-1000...

Re: The Knife Maker

#115
post #33

I'm torn between "This guy clearly enjoys his work, bully for him." and "The handmade movement is an extravagantly wasteful alternative to a factory in China to give rich white people an opportunity to demonstrate their social superiority over people who use functionally equivalent objects produced in an efficient fashion." (c.f. organic food, fair trade coffee, etc etc. This topic makes me positively Marxist. There…

Aren't the members of the handmade movement part of the capitalist system? If no one purchases their goods, preferring instead a factory made product, they will go out of business. Or maybe just continue to produce as a hobby or for friends and family as gifts.

Re: The Knife Maker

#116
post #62

Making something from nothing has always given me the greatest high. This video reminded me that it is that high that got me into software development. When I was young (and had no money): - Made origami - Learned sailors knots - 3d sculptures of science fiction aircraft from index cards - Bow and arrows from q-tips and underwear rubber - Sailboats from 2x4's, coat hangers, plastic garbage bags, and fishing line - Sk…

Exactly. This is the sentiment I expected to see on HN, where there is always praise for the hacker "building" and sticking it to the man because he/she can make something on their own.

Re: The Knife Maker

#117
post #33

I'm torn between "This guy clearly enjoys his work, bully for him." and "The handmade movement is an extravagantly wasteful alternative to a factory in China to give rich white people an opportunity to demonstrate their social superiority over people who use functionally equivalent objects produced in an efficient fashion." (c.f. organic food, fair trade coffee, etc etc. This topic makes me positively Marxist. There…

I don't know chef's knives from Adam, but I'll counter that with some stuff I do know about, which is hand tool woodworking.

TL;DR: I buy handmade saws because they are demonstrably superior.

Time was you could not buy a quality Western saw new for love or money[1]. And by "time was" I mean "as recently as six to ten years ago". Independence Tools were the first people since the 40s, probably earlier, to make a dovetail saw worth using and that was in 1996 or so; if you wanted a full sized hand saw pretty much only the Lynx/Pax brands existed and as an owner of three of those let me tell you they do not come ready to use (think re-setting, resharpening, and making the handle comfortable to use).

Most people working in the western tradition used their grandfather's factory made saws, which despite being factory made required extensive hand work to e.g. get the taper grind right. Relatively recently it has become possible to buy a very good mass produced dovetail/small carcasse saw from Lee Valley. But those saws aren't very old, and nearly everyone else in the industry (and it is an industry now, albeit a small one; I can't even remember all the small-factory superb saws made now. At least a dozen different marques) does it basically the way Disston and its competitors used to; skilled artisans.

It would not surprise me in the least to learn that cheap factory made knives have bad handles, bad balance, bad steel and a bad grind, and any one of those things can screw up a knife you are using all day every day.

Re: The Knife Maker

#118
post #71
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an honest question, and I promise, I'm not trolling but have you actually experienced where someone is really uncomfortable because I can go buy something that is of equal quality and it is related to social status? Is there data on this? Sure there are trends clothing, knife brands, and almost every other good comes in and out fashion, but isn't that the nature of competition and capitalism? Is this because…

It's not at all controversial--standard social signaling theory. GMU Econ professor Robin Hanson's blog, http://overcomingbias.com , has stuff about it all the time. Here's some more classic citations: http://octavia.zoology.washington.edu/handicap/honest_econom...

I've read through a lot of that it still doesn't make sense to me that someone would be uncomfortable with the unwashed masses getting access to previously unattainable goods.

We both agree that certain goods produce a signaling effect. Where I am curious is do the wealthy not like it when the masses get access to good because:

A) They don't deserve them. B) We have to find new signaling goods. C) They drive the price of goods higher or lower depending on the supply/demand curve thus manipulating the market for THEIR goods.

Re: The Knife Maker

#119
post #33

I'm torn between "This guy clearly enjoys his work, bully for him." and "The handmade movement is an extravagantly wasteful alternative to a factory in China to give rich white people an opportunity to demonstrate their social superiority over people who use functionally equivalent objects produced in an efficient fashion." (c.f. organic food, fair trade coffee, etc etc. This topic makes me positively Marxist. There…

I don't know chef's knives from Adam, but I'll counter that with some stuff I do know about, which is hand tool woodworking. TL;DR: I buy handmade saws because they are demonstrably superior. Time was you could not buy a quality Western saw new for love or money[1]. And by "time was" I mean "as recently as six to ten years ago". Independence Tools were the first people since the 40s, probably earlier, to make a dovet…

Fascinating. Have you tried any of the Japanese pull saws? How do those compare to a good handmade western saw? I've only dabbled in woodworking, but I found those pull saws to be much more manageable than the other saws I had available to me.

On the knife front, I use some cheap carbon steel French knives called Opinel. They're excellent, except for their penchant for rusting (not a huge issue, it wipes away, they just don't stay shiny). I would assume that they're factory made, given that they're less than $10. I think they use the same design they've been using for 100 years.

Re: The Knife Maker

#120
post #33

I'm torn between "This guy clearly enjoys his work, bully for him." and "The handmade movement is an extravagantly wasteful alternative to a factory in China to give rich white people an opportunity to demonstrate their social superiority over people who use functionally equivalent objects produced in an efficient fashion." (c.f. organic food, fair trade coffee, etc etc. This topic makes me positively Marxist. There…

I'm torn between dearly loving spending my time on crafts such as this, and being unable to give a strong rebuttal to your criticisms of the handmade movement.

If a hobby makes you happy, then you don't need any further justification for it.
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