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New California law requires high schools to start later

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Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#111

Post by giantg2 »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #104
giantg2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the kids really have a hard time waking up (the point t of this law), then it's possible they over sleep. Many parents might not be comfortable with their kid cooking breakfast unsupervised too. If they're in after school activities and/or have a job, then it seem unlikely that they would get into trouble anyways. Pushing the time back will make these after school activities unfeasible for many, and limit opportun…

Use an alarm. Eat cereal. Use the microwave. These are all non problems that any half functioning adult or high school kid can think of solutions to.

If the kids are really so sleep deprived that we need a law about it, then it's likely some will sleep past their alarms.

Dictating diet by limiting options doesn't sound like a great plan to me.

You know what else is a non-problem? The current start times.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#112

Post by thehappypm »

gruez wrote: post #48
synergy20 wrote: post #21

I never understand the schedule for schools: 1. elementary school starts at 7:30AM, middle school at 8:20, high school at 9:10 here. So, the youngest kid gets up at 6:50AM, older ones at 7:50AM, oldest at 8:40(assuming you're not too far from school that is). why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me. 2. School is off in hot summer and cold winter, I would prefer they study on campus then, so they…

A recent economist article explains it well: >Since the 1950s Americans have been moving away from cities to sprawling suburbs with limited public transport. Families became car-dependent and buses were used to get pupils to school. But to save money schools often have to share bus fleets. High-schoolers are usually picked up first, then middle school, to prevent elementary pupils from waiting in the morning darkness…

It’s less about “saving money” IMO than about wastefulness. Every student going at the same time is just a waste of busing resources. Staggering it a bit is more efficient, which sure saves money but also just prevents waste

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#113

Post by thehappypm »

gonehome wrote: post #72
synergy20 wrote: post #21

I never understand the schedule for schools: 1. elementary school starts at 7:30AM, middle school at 8:20, high school at 9:10 here. So, the youngest kid gets up at 6:50AM, older ones at 7:50AM, oldest at 8:40(assuming you're not too far from school that is). why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me. 2. School is off in hot summer and cold winter, I would prefer they study on campus then, so they…

1. It's way better for younger kids to start earlier than older kids, gives time for parents to get them out the door before work (older kids can manage themselves). There's also some evidence that older kids have more trouble getting up super early. 2. Highly regionally variable (California summer is the best season by far, east coast summer is much worse than fall) - summer also has the longest daytime light which…

East coast summer is much worse than fall? What do you mean?

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#114

Post by giantg2 »

ghaff wrote: post #99
giantg2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think this has nothing to do with parents? You do realize that 14-17 is still a minor?

I wouldn't say "nothing to do with parents." But kids in that age range can do quite a few things on their own. I was in college in a different city at 16.

I'm not just talking about the getting to school part. I'm also talking about setting the time part via parents at the board meetings.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#115

Post by chefandy »

synergy20 wrote: post #21

I never understand the schedule for schools: 1. elementary school starts at 7:30AM, middle school at 8:20, high school at 9:10 here. So, the youngest kid gets up at 6:50AM, older ones at 7:50AM, oldest at 8:40(assuming you're not too far from school that is). why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me. 2. School is off in hot summer and cold winter, I would prefer they study on campus then, so they…

For us in high school we started the earliest. I think the idea was that older siblings might need to care for younger ones when they got out of school. Being a night owl, I’m 100% positive it was a driving factor in my disengagement and eventual expulsion (for truancy) from public school.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#116

Post by subsubzero »

synergy20 wrote: post #21

I never understand the schedule for schools: 1. elementary school starts at 7:30AM, middle school at 8:20, high school at 9:10 here. So, the youngest kid gets up at 6:50AM, older ones at 7:50AM, oldest at 8:40(assuming you're not too far from school that is). why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me. 2. School is off in hot summer and cold winter, I would prefer they study on campus then, so they…

Its totally designed for working parents, little kids need the most attention and therefore have the earliest start times. As kids get older they are more self sufficient hence the later school start times. But I think the reason for these times primarily is for parents where both of them go to work early. I am glad to see high schoolers start later as I remember having a very hard time getting up early during my teenage years.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#117

Post by SoftTalker »

ghaff wrote: post #99
giantg2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think this has nothing to do with parents? You do realize that 14-17 is still a minor?

I wouldn't say "nothing to do with parents." But kids in that age range can do quite a few things on their own. I was in college in a different city at 16.

It's not so much them getting to school on their own, yes they can easily do that. It's making sure they are actually awake. When my kids were teens, if someone was not there to make sure they got up, they would sleep until 10 or 11. Alarms, etc. had basically no effect they could sleep through a tornado.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#118

Post by theptip »

veilrap wrote: post #90
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.h... https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aau6200

The fact that "late bedtimes" is listed as a cause is telling - shifting the start time later isn't likely to help if it just allows/causes people to shift their bedtimes later in response. Teens who go to bed at a reasonable hour are getting enough sleep and performing well.

Diurnal cycles are a thing. (Some people naturally are night owls.)

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#119

Post by collegeburner »

ar_lan wrote: post #80

This seems crazy late. IIRC I had a 0-period class starting at 6:00am. Starting 2.5 hours later is surprising. If I were back in high school, all this would have told me is that I'm staying up until at least midnight, if not later. I was usually good about sleeping around 9:30pm which gave me roughly 9 hours sleep. Since I assume this means school will end later in the day, this just means homework gets pushed much l…

Fr lol all this will do is make kids less disciplined. They need to be forced to go to bed and get up early precisely because it is harder than getting up late and staying up late. Inertia says its easier to stay up late than get up early so since we need to put discipline into kids we should do the opposite. Kids will otherwise just stay up late watching TV and smoking marijuana.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#120

Post by sharadov »

Elementary school kids have an easier schedule and tend to go to bed early. Teens in high school tend have a more intense schedule ( academics, sports, other activities). The teen body is growing more quickly and they need about 8 to 10 hrs of sleep. I know high schools that start at 7:50 am, that is criminal. Let the teens sleep in..
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