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BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

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Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#111

Post by seanp2k2 »

rconti wrote: post #64
phkahler wrote: post #44

A lot of the complexity here is because the gear selector is considered a safety-critical part. They may also consider LED indicators on it as safety-critical information to the driver. Those two things - is the transmission receiving the real intent of the driver, and is the driver being told the actual state of the system - are just the top level. Security is also starting to be a concern, though I think there is r…

Yup. Bad Things can happen: https://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/autos/jeep-recall-anton-yel... I absolutely hate stateless switches on automotive stuff. Why can't I tell that my turn signal is on by 'feel'? Why do I have to rely on a (too quiet) clicking, or a (too hidden) indicator light? I have an E70 X5 with the "new style" transmission selector, as well as a Tesla 3 that replicates it on the right side of the column…

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Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#112

Post by wolrah »

stefan_ wrote: post #108
wolrah wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the first part of this blog series had the gear selector sending it's state every 30ms - so you are looking at some averaged ~15ms of latency just from this thing. For reference purposes at the standard gaming benchmark of 60 FPS a single frame is 16.666_ ms, so you're looking at the equivalent of a frame or two of delay. That could be critical for a CRT-era fighting game that requires frame-perfect inputs,…

Yes, exactly, that is terrible latency if you want to use it as an input device.

> Yes, exactly, that is terrible latency if you want to use it as an input device.

Eh, yes and no. It's a lot worse than it could be, that's for sure, but there are a lot of major name game controllers that were sold for years and perform worse, yet a lot of players would never notice unless they did a side-by-side comparison against a good one.

For the use case, where the hardware it's controlling has an inherent latency measured in the many dozens to hundreds of milliseconds depending on which model and mode, it doesn't really matter. Likewise for the author's intended use case as a mode selector for an EV. A faster update rate is in all likelihood possible in the hardware, but when you're sharing a bus measured in kilobits per second with other potentially critical messages it seems reasonable to rate limit.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#113

Post by quarantaseih »

smilekzs wrote: post #109
simondotau wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much everything you’ve said is the exact opposite of my experience (BMW 1-series F20 125i). Great throttle response, minimal turbo lag, precise steering, and highly controllable confidence inspiring brakes. I can see why someone might not like the shifter and indicator stalk, but they simply haven’t been an issue for me. In fact there’s aspects of them which I prefer.

I have driven the X1 and various other BMWs. The X1 is indeed horrible, and there is a reason: For handling / lateral dynamics: The X1 is derived from essentially a MINI platform which is FWD-based (transverse engine), compared to the rest of the BMW lineup which is RWD-based (longitudinal engine). For power / longitudinal dynamics: If GP happened to be driving a 3-cylinder, then of course the turbo lag would be high…

Its on a mini platform? No wonder its so small.

Thats what I get for asking AVIS for a large SUV/minivan for a family of 5 - my older daughters riding without a booster seat, wont fit.

It comes base with a three cylinder option? I want to cry. Every merge requires flooring the pedal and a prayer.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#114

Post by simondotau »

smilekzs wrote: post #109
simondotau wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much everything you’ve said is the exact opposite of my experience (BMW 1-series F20 125i). Great throttle response, minimal turbo lag, precise steering, and highly controllable confidence inspiring brakes. I can see why someone might not like the shifter and indicator stalk, but they simply haven’t been an issue for me. In fact there’s aspects of them which I prefer.

I have driven the X1 and various other BMWs. The X1 is indeed horrible, and there is a reason: For handling / lateral dynamics: The X1 is derived from essentially a MINI platform which is FWD-based (transverse engine), compared to the rest of the BMW lineup which is RWD-based (longitudinal engine). For power / longitudinal dynamics: If GP happened to be driving a 3-cylinder, then of course the turbo lag would be high…

I suspected that might be the case; I've driven an array of BMW models but haven't driven any BMW/Mini FWD architecture cars.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#115

Post by simondotau »

quarantaseih wrote: post #113
smilekzs wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have driven the X1 and various other BMWs. The X1 is indeed horrible, and there is a reason: For handling / lateral dynamics: The X1 is derived from essentially a MINI platform which is FWD-based (transverse engine), compared to the rest of the BMW lineup which is RWD-based (longitudinal engine). For power / longitudinal dynamics: If GP happened to be driving a 3-cylinder, then of course the turbo lag would be high…

Its on a mini platform? No wonder its so small. Thats what I get for asking AVIS for a large SUV/minivan for a family of 5 - my older daughters riding without a booster seat, wont fit. It comes base with a three cylinder option? I want to cry. Every merge requires flooring the pedal and a prayer.

On one trip to the UK my rental car was a Mercedes A160 diesel. It was so utterly devoid of power that it was a legitimate death trap when confronting a busy roundabout from a standstill.

European automotive luxury means getting the perfect car from a wide array of choices, including the privilege of being able to choose an engine that makes an economy Toyota hatchback seem downright sporty by comparison.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#116

Post by lambdadmitry »

simondotau wrote: post #115
quarantaseih wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its on a mini platform? No wonder its so small. Thats what I get for asking AVIS for a large SUV/minivan for a family of 5 - my older daughters riding without a booster seat, wont fit. It comes base with a three cylinder option? I want to cry. Every merge requires flooring the pedal and a prayer.

On one trip to the UK my rental car was a Mercedes A160 diesel. It was so utterly devoid of power that it was a legitimate death trap when confronting a busy roundabout from a standstill. European automotive luxury means getting the perfect car from a wide array of choices, including the privilege of being able to choose an engine that makes an economy Toyota hatchback seem downright sporty by comparison.

I'm not sure if you drove in the UK much, but generally roundabouts are explicitly not "death traps" regardless of the amount of power you have. I literally use them on a cycle from time to time. Everyone is slow, pays attention, and is ready to brake if needed. If you feel need for extra power, you're probably doing something wrong (e.g. not giving enough space for the oncoming traffic you're supposed to yield to).

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#117

Post by simondotau »

lambdadmitry wrote: post #116
simondotau wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one trip to the UK my rental car was a Mercedes A160 diesel. It was so utterly devoid of power that it was a legitimate death trap when confronting a busy roundabout from a standstill. European automotive luxury means getting the perfect car from a wide array of choices, including the privilege of being able to choose an engine that makes an economy Toyota hatchback seem downright sporty by comparison.

I'm not sure if you drove in the UK much, but generally roundabouts are explicitly not "death traps" regardless of the amount of power you have. I literally use them on a cycle from time to time. Everyone is slow, pays attention, and is ready to brake if needed. If you feel need for extra power, you're probably doing something wrong (e.g. not giving enough space for the oncoming traffic you're supposed to yield to).

That is certainly the case for the vast majority of roundabouts. But there are also a number of roundabouts which have a large diameter, limited visibility and a continuous flow of fast-moving traffic and you’d be sitting there forever if you couldn’t nip into a small gap. I’ve noticed this in particular while in Kent in the south-east.

(I’ve driven across a decent amount of the UK, from Heathrow to Durham, Edinburgh, King’s Lynn, Greater London and Folkestone. I have an extended array of in-laws in Consett, Snettisham, Isle of Man, and elsewhere.)

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#118

Post by asciimike »

brk wrote: post #47
asciimike wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2021 Tacoma Manual owner here (one of the reasons I got it). Gladiators and Broncos are also available with a manual!

What about your steering, braking, and throttle controls?

Throttle is drive by wire, brakes are hydraulic (as is the clutch), and steering is hydraulic.

That said, I'm not railing against computers in the car, I'm mostly saying I like manually shifting my gears.

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