Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

gpdp.it

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 614 posts

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#111

Post by progman32 »

nnq wrote: post #79
closewith wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bizarre idea. Should websites be allowed to opt out of anti-fraud legislation? Anti-money laundering? Human rights protections?

Yes? ...this was the original dream of non-national cyberspace and we almost had a hope at getting it. Then the second chance with web3 but this was also spoiled by people getting too greedy and too nasty too fast. A parallel anonymous-and-free-for-all-but-with-payments-included, smth. like Tor-but-powered-by-IPFSv9-and-Etherv7, will probably emerge in a couple decades done right after a couple failed iterations. Som…

I believe your argument simply boils down to "laws shouldn't apply to people". Am I mistaken?

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#112

Post by olalonde »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #94
olalonde wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should GDPR be opt-in but not the consumer minimum 2-year guarantee against faulty products? I also believe that should be opt-in. > To commit frauds, for example? Fraud implies an unwilling party, a victim. Not comparable at all to what I'm suggesting.

> I also believe that should be opt-in. But that is irrelevant, we European citizens are happy to have it. And actually fought to have it. It's a consumer protection law, what you want is consumers with less or no protections. > Fraud implies an unwilling party, a victim. Not comparable at all to what I'm suggesting. I'm quite sure the majority of users visiting a website that hosts GA are giving away their data unwi…

> It's a consumer protection law, what you want is consumers with less or no protections.

Yes, indeed. I don't believe the government should mandate specific protections consumers should receive, because it just serves to reduce consumer options. And this is also why I wish GDPR would have been opt in, giving more options to consumers.

For example, in a world with no government mandated "2 year warranty", some manufacturers would offer a product with "2 year warranty" and some other manufacturers would offer the same product "without warranty", but at a lower price.

Consumers would then be free to chose if they want to pay the cheaper price without warranty or the higher price with the warranty. There are two options for consumers in this world whereas in the world with mandated warranty, only the "higher price with warranty" option is available.

It's the same with GDPR, GDPR compliance has a cost. Some websites have started banning EU IPs for that reason.

Of course, the above assumes that consumers are not mislead and that transactions are voluntary. Therefore, I do think there should be laws against fraud, theft, misrepresentation, etc.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#114

Post by hnarn »

mro_name wrote: post #97
corywatilo wrote: post #18

Italy is the 4th in a string of recent decisions across the EU. (We're tracking these cases on isgoogleanalyticsillegal.com along with details for each.) Note that it's not illegal to use GA entirely, just illegal to use in its default state which transmits PII to the US.

yeah, like 'swimming pools only bear a danger of drowning when wet'.

That analogy makes no sense at all.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#115

Post by baisq »

feet wrote: post #107
baisq wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a modern democracy requires an ever-growing government I think I will stick to Democracy Stable.

Quoted post unavailable.

Thinking that the situation of the majority of Europeans is the same as the propaganda that you read is a big, big mistake.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#116

Post by naet »

lmkg wrote: post #56
corywatilo wrote: post #18

Italy is the 4th in a string of recent decisions across the EU. (We're tracking these cases on isgoogleanalyticsillegal.com along with details for each.) Note that it's not illegal to use GA entirely, just illegal to use in its default state which transmits PII to the US.

> just illegal to use in its default state which transmits PII to the US As I mentioned in a sibling comment, this is technically true but complying with GDPR takes more than unchecking a few boxes. I've never seen any GA set-up that would remotely approach compliance. At minimum, you need to mask IP's before they reach Google, which means standing up a non-Google server to proxy all the hits. That is more complexity…

My current understanding of google analytics and GDPR compliance is that you can use it in a GDPR compliant manner without that much trouble. On the older UA there is a simple flag that enables IP anonymization and on the new GA4 there is purportedly no need for it as they don't collect or store the IP at all.

For many clients I have set up a cookie compliance tool like Onetrust, which blocks loading of GA and other scripts with one of the consent popups. With this combined configuration (and having verified nothing sneaks through before someone gives consent) most company legal / compliance teams I have worked with have deemed this to be a fully compliant setup. Of course, this might not be actually compliant, but the company legal team has done some research and arrived at this as the most advantageous position currently available.

I think using a compliance based tool like Onetrust also gives a sense of legal security in that if our configuration is properly set up they are advertising that we then get compliance as part of their service, and so responsibility of a violation could potentially be passed to them in a legal setting.

ref: https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/2763052?hl=en

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#117

Post by clairity »

i’d support any legislation that booted google, fb, ms, adobe, salesforce, and a whole host of other surveillance tech companies from any and all levels of government. it’s literally as important as the separation of church and state. in fact, i’d love to see a constitutional amendment explicitly separating corporate interests from governmental ones, in all facets of civic life (e.g., campaign finance).

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#118

Post by QuarterReptile »

saas_sam wrote: post #66
Forgeties79 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My buddy is a manager at a chemical plant, and your comment reminds me of a very astute statement he made recently. “I don’t generally like unions. I’ve worked at both union and non-union plants. But anytime someone else complains about unions, I remind them that if they have a union at their plant, they earned it.“

When union plants are shuttered in favor of non-union plants, did they earn that too? Or does this logic only apply in one direction?

Yes? Why wouldn't they?

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#119

Post by aliasxneo »

leephillips wrote: post #24

Good. US citizens should be, at least, disappointed that their government is so bad at protecting their privacy, that US law is so far behind the times. To those companies and people who find these EU decisions baffling or inconvenient: tough. If you had had respect for your users this would not be an issue. You would already not be spying on them. To website visitors: if you see a cookie banner, the site is asking p…

> To website visitors: if you see a cookie banner, the site is asking permission to spy on you. If that concerns you, close the tab.

There was a recent ACM article on this. They found there was a large number of sites that don't actually ask permission for anything, they are simply informing you of the spying. Not surprisingly, the ones that did allow modifying cookies were all setup in a predatory fashion which discouraged the disabling of tracking.

The whole system is broke at the moment.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#120

Post by peoplefromibiza »

olalonde wrote: post #112
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also believe that should be opt-in. But that is irrelevant, we European citizens are happy to have it. And actually fought to have it. It's a consumer protection law, what you want is consumers with less or no protections. > Fraud implies an unwilling party, a victim. Not comparable at all to what I'm suggesting. I'm quite sure the majority of users visiting a website that hosts GA are giving away their data unwi…

> It's a consumer protection law, what you want is consumers with less or no protections. Yes, indeed. I don't believe the government should mandate specific protections consumers should receive, because it just serves to reduce consumer options. And this is also why I wish GDPR would have been opt in, giving more options to consumers. For example, in a world with no government mandated "2 year warranty", some manufa…

> Yes, indeed. I don't believe the government should mandate specific protections consumers should receive,

What you believe or not it's completely irrelevant.

In my Country consumer protection is in the Constitution, at article 41. [1]

So the government is duty bound to protect the consumers.

Thanks God I was born here and not in olalonde-land.

[1] Art. 41

Private economic enterprise is free. It may not be carried out against the common good or in a way that may harm public security, liberty, or human dignity.

The law determines appropriate planning and controls so that public and private economic activities may be directed and coordinated towards social ends.

> "some manufacturers would offer a product with "2 year warranty"

Or, realistically, all the manufacturers would offer zero days warranty and only luxury brands would offer life-long warranty to people who can afford their products (e.g. less than 1% of the population).

Example: Apple, which is not exactly a cheap brand, only offers one year warranty in the US, while it's 2 years mandated by the law in EU.

Post reply on HN