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Where are all the crypto use cases?

evanjconrad.com

111–120 of 273 posts

Re: Where are all the crypto use cases?

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't use these "DeFi loans" to buy a house in the real world. You can if the person selling the house agrees to accept the token (likely some form of stablecoin). Whether that matches your definition of 'real world' or not, these things have happened already. We will probably see less of this in the US, but I can imagine someone in another country gladly accepting tokens. I don't see why this is so far fetched…

> don't see why this is so far fetched at this point Because you've fetched it far with "I can imagine someone gladly accepting tokens for a house"

I don't know how how many deals went through but there were ads in my country for buying houses with bitcoin [1]

[1] https://www.mercadolibre.com.ar/inmuebles/blog/propiedades-e...

Re: Where are all the crypto use cases?

#112
post #38
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think self sovereign identity (ie, what Keybase did but standardized and anchored on a public blockchain rather than a private database) is an interesting consumer-facing technology that is crypto based and isn't a scam. Identity plays are tricky commercially but there do seem to be some interesting shoots of growth around it.

I'm a broken record on why I believe this is a distinctively bad use case for public blockchains, for whatever it's worth. But it doesn't matter that I think this use case is doomed; what matters is: it's not a serious mainstream thing right now. If it becomes one, you won't have to argue; it'll be self-evidently an important use case.

Please explain what this is a bad use case. I'd love to learn why that is.

Re: Where are all the crypto use cases?

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google: "accept crypto payments" For example: https://bitpay.com/online-payments/

Accepting isn't enough. The issue is nobody prices in coin.

Also I would like it run not on just Amazon but on all the PCs out there which take part in the program, without having to contract with multiple parties or be dependent on a single cloud-provider like Amazon.

I think this would be a good use-case for crypto.

The thing about crypto is you don't sign a contract with any single company (like Amazon) to use it. Getting paid by users of your program wherever it executes should be (ideally) as simple.

Re: Where are all the crypto use cases?

#114
The problem is that crypto is marketed (often) to consumers but crypto is really infrastructure so the target user is the enterprise, not the consumer. Any consumer use case is built on top of the infrastructure, and the consumers don't care if it's crypto or not.

In short, crypto is b2b and not B2C.

Re: Where are all the crypto use cases?

#115
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This avoids all of the capital controls and knowledge the state has So. Illegal movement of money.

The Chinese government has committed horrible atrocities. The US government to this day has people locked for life in prison because they sold marijuana for the third time and were sentenced to life. Prior governments worldwide sanctioned human slavery and collected taxes on slave sales. You say illegal - but I say immoral

I'm quite far from defending the chinese government,but your whole thread seems to be an incentive for tax evasion "because the government commits horrible atrocities". Governments are not "moral" or "immoral" - they are amoral. Their purpose (when they are good) isn't to improve conditions for everyone, just their citizens. And if that comes at a cost to other citizens in other countries, they are still within their mission's scope.

Projecting your own opinion on morality or legitimacy doesn't change the fact that taxes need to be paid, and in fact dictatorial regimes tend to frown upon tax evasion, so your opinion may also contribute to the increase of "people locked for life" just because they took you seriously. So, in some way, these stances actually contribute to the worsening of the issue.

Re: Where are all the crypto use cases?

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm saying that enabling ransomware is actually doing worse than the alternatives. It turns out censorship of transactions has value.

malware enables ransomware: the root of the problem isn't payment. the root of the problem is the widespread insecurity of modern computer systems. You could just as equally blame cash for enabling robberies and conventional ransoms. Should the government step in to censor all cash transactions?

Yes. As an example, in Portugal it is forbidden to perform cash payments above 3.000 Eur. Also, inter-bank transfers above a certain value may require documentation demonstrating they are legitimate. Every country you see pushing electronic payments is already censoring cash transactions, as a way of curb the parallel economy and tax evasion.

Re: Where are all the crypto use cases?

#117
The problem with crypto is that the main unique features are only "distributed trust" or the "public immutable ledger" aspects. Everything else can be implemented or emulated much more easily emulated with simpler, traditional technologies.

The thing is, nobody actually cares if the thing they trust is distributed or not. They just want to not have to trust some specific third parties. They very rarely want their information to be public and immutable.

For example, banks would really like to be able to detect credit card fraud where customers use a cc from bank A to pay off the cc debt in bank B. But they don't want to trust each other, so how do they exchange this data?

Crypto people would instantly jump and say: "Blockchain!"

But what's required here is not distributed ledgers, and certainly not public ledgers. The whole problem is thank bank A doesn't want to give B their customer records. Making it public is worse.

Instead what they do is hire a third-party that's not a bank, like Equifax, Experian, and the like.

These companies hold the ledger centrally, secretly, and don't tell anyone[1] the contents, including bank A or B! Instead, they sell back to the banks the "cc fraud analysis" only, after having done the cross-bank transaction analysis.

There are hundreds, if not thousands of companies like this around the world. I know of several that collect sales information from competing companies and then sell back the anonymized statistics to them. There's basically one for every industry, in every large country.

About 90% of what crypto does can be implemented much more sanely, cheaply, and privately using something like a cloud service.

For example, Azure SQL now has a "Ledger" feature where it keeps cryptographic hashes of transactions in a chain (sound familiar?), and keeps these in immutable blob storage. This blob storage can be restricted to specific private networks. Even if it is public, there is access control based on API keys and the like.

Corporations that need an immutable ledger that "none of them control but all of them can access and verify" can just hire a third-party to spin one of these up and host it in the cloud. Faster, cheaper, simpler, compatible with ordinary SQL applications, and private. That last one can't be underestimated. That's a killer feature that no blockchain can provide without crypto wizardry that only 2 or 3 people on the planet understand.

Ref: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/relational-databases/se...

[1] Have you ever wondered why the Equifax data breach affected the records of so many people from so many banks? This is why! Their core business model is cross-bank data collection and analysis.

Re: Where are all the crypto use cases?

#118

He misses the two main use cases, and the two things that crypto are used for that dwarfs everything else. A) it's a great speculative asset. Huge volatility in value means fortunes can be made (and lost) in days not lifetimes. All those crypto ads on the radio talk about "investing" in Bitcoin - marketing it as an asset, not about using it as currency. It appears to be a zero sum game. I'll make no judgement about i…

Yep, this.

"useful"

and

"no use case"

are not the same thing.

Clearly anyone who isn't completely blind can see that you can use crypto for some things. It's pretty easy to demolish the strawman that is 'there is nothing to can use that for'.

...but given that technically it's like an unregulated, very slow, very expensive payment system, it's far harder to swallow the idea that it has compelling use cases, by which I mean, "I would be convinced to use this" unless:

- you are doing something that is illegal

- you're doing something traditional payment providers don't allow

- you want to avoid taxes / tariffs (see, doing something illegal)

- you want to avoid the red tape to do something (eg. banking, coin offering)

- you're speculating

Otherwise, you can just using something else, that is faster, simpler, cheaper and safer (ie. legal protections, etc.).

Many of the 'novel' ideas in crypto like asserting ownership via NFTs, smart contracts, etc. are not fundamentally restricted to crypto; you could run them centralized, and it would make almost no difference at all. You'd still have a CoinSpace wallet that you convert USD to CoinTokens on, and upload your smart contracts to.

The crypto part of this is not compelling, it's just a pain in the ass to deal with, technically, and commercially toxic by association with bad actors.

On top of that, the crypto is fundamentally worthless unless you have people who want to buy it, so it is in bad faith that most crypto proponents advocate for it; it is in their interests, not yours, to be involved with it.

Re: Where are all the crypto use cases?

#119
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This avoids all of the capital controls and knowledge the state has So. Illegal movement of money.

The Chinese government has committed horrible atrocities. The US government to this day has people locked for life in prison because they sold marijuana for the third time and were sentenced to life. Prior governments worldwide sanctioned human slavery and collected taxes on slave sales. You say illegal - but I say immoral

What a ridiculous argument for tax evasion. Your tax money also supports elderly care, orphanages and a range of essential services that you have already benefited from. What you are doing is immoral - freeloading.

Re: Where are all the crypto use cases?

#120
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese government has committed horrible atrocities. The US government to this day has people locked for life in prison because they sold marijuana for the third time and were sentenced to life. Prior governments worldwide sanctioned human slavery and collected taxes on slave sales. You say illegal - but I say immoral

I'm quite far from defending the chinese government,but your whole thread seems to be an incentive for tax evasion "because the government commits horrible atrocities". Governments are not "moral" or "immoral" - they are amoral. Their purpose (when they are good) isn't to improve conditions for everyone, just their citizens. And if that comes at a cost to other citizens in other countries, they are still within their…

The reason someone in Vietnam, China, or any other country with terrible government would dare dream of being paid to do graphic design without the government tracking such a payment is not simply about tax evasion. You might be helping to promote abortion. Or gay rights. Or liberal democracy.

There are innumerable reasons why someone in an authoritarian regime would prefer to earn a living outside the political apparatus, which in the current official monetary system is impossible.

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