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Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

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Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#111

Post by bombcar »

BadCookie wrote: post #71
thrill wrote: post #48

Having just spent 3 weeks on 4x hour long interviews and completing a day long coding problem along with a "code while I watch" to get to the point that "we're tabling this for a few months" I suspect many of us senior types are just tabling the job seeking process ourselves until we seem to be in actual demand.

Sometimes companies pay for the time it takes to complete a take-home project. I think it’s a good idea, especially now given all the hiring freezes and especially for a remote position where the applicant has no idea how many other applicants (around the country/world) they might be competing against.

In the past often the ones that didn't pay would at least fly you over to headquarters and wine/dine you and put you up at a hotel for a night or two, which was a nice "off the books" payment.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#112

Post by walrus01 »

The only actually senior people who are going to jump through the hoops of doing a 4 hour take home technical assessment are the ones interested in:

a) you are offering some absurd amount of stock options for something they really think will be valuable in the future

b) the net take-home compensation after federal/state income taxes will be absurdly high

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#113

Post by AndyNemmity »

jitix wrote: post #100
AndyNemmity wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, take home technical assignment. Why would I ever? I'd much rather have a comfortable conversation with someone who has worked with me in the past. I'm never, ever doing a 4 hour assignment for you.

But isn't the alternative to take home assignment leetcoding on whiteboards? Last time I was interviewing in the US market was in 2017 and it was literally just these two options. And the assignments tended to be long - like a week long. (tbh there were a few companies that pre-offered and just wanted one general discussion round with the team but they felt shady and desperate, and one was a literal consultancy) Coul…

I think where the disconnect is occurring is that leetcoding on whiteboards, and home assignments are not the norm for many of us who are Senior.

I have 20y+ experience in startups, unicorn, large companies, big data analytics, full stack applications, and system design.

I am not asked to interview with whiteboard coding when someone wants to hire me from a referral. They are glorified meet and greets.

This is what having a network of people who have worked with you before, and have seen your productivity does. You don't interview the same way other people do, people want you for you, because they know that it doesn't matter what the technology is, you're going to provide a crazy level of value, and they want that level of value in their situation.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#114

Post by pcthrowaway »

mattbee wrote: post #56
throw1138 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a throwaway because I'm just an engineer on the team wondering if there's something obvious we're doing wrong, and I don't imagine this would be considered desirable attention by management. Would posting a job ad on AskHN requesting feedback be acceptable? I ask because I'd have expected to see it a bunch if it were. @dang would be very appreciative of your word one way or another. Thanks mattbee.

Ohhhh OK. I'd say don't post your actual ad because we will find you and give you more help than you wanted ;) Like maybe your team page is all white men, or your defence contracts are very prominent, or your CEO is a public dong. It's a bit of a yellow flag that you don't feel you can go to your managers with this to help fix a team you're obviously invested in? But here's two tips that you might be able to implemen…

> careers.bytemark.co.uk/full-process

This is really cool!

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#115

Post by adhesive_wombat »

cableshaft wrote: post #109
duped wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People say this and I have yet to find a company that doesn't do some kind of technical assessment. But I have seen multiple coworkers with 10-20 years of experience as software engineers with glowing recommendations get fired because they couldn't write software. So I'm a little happier to have some bar for myself and coworkers to clear. > I'm never, ever doing a 4 hour assignment for you. Boo hoo, you need to spend…

If I'm interviewing at multiple companies and they all do that, that's 4 hours per company I want to check out. And let's be honest, most of these I've been asked to do weren't reasonable to do, and do well, and double check, in four hours, despite the claim. Eight hours is more reasonable to do them properly, usually. If I interview at three places, that's three days of unpaid work (or 6+ evenings after I've already…

> Like I just can't find the energy to put up with Amazon's 2.5 hour span of unbroken time take-home test

By the sounds of it, that test would be the best bit of your time at Amazon.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#116

Post by culpable_pickle »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #106
mr_gibbins wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agree. People with 10+ years, a good network and decent resume pop their head up above the parapet and get instantly mobbed with offers. They're on the market 2 weeks, tops. No-one good is going to do a takehome just so the hiring team can rub their beards and feel superior while they pick over the code. That approach worked a few years ago, in today's recruitment bear market you don't pick the candidates,…

> We're moving to 1-stage interviews, offer on the same day. Higher risk but we have no choice Anecdotally, I've seen people actually been put off by this. Perhaps make it 2 interviews just to not seem desperate. It's not my own reaction, but I could see why people might think "They're really desperate, there must be something wrong there"

Communication here is key. If the process is described well and reasons explained, I believe it could work just fine.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#117

Post by bombcar »

mattbee wrote: post #56
throw1138 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a throwaway because I'm just an engineer on the team wondering if there's something obvious we're doing wrong, and I don't imagine this would be considered desirable attention by management. Would posting a job ad on AskHN requesting feedback be acceptable? I ask because I'd have expected to see it a bunch if it were. @dang would be very appreciative of your word one way or another. Thanks mattbee.

Ohhhh OK. I'd say don't post your actual ad because we will find you and give you more help than you wanted ;) Like maybe your team page is all white men, or your defence contracts are very prominent, or your CEO is a public dong. It's a bit of a yellow flag that you don't feel you can go to your managers with this to help fix a team you're obviously invested in? But here's two tips that you might be able to implemen…

1) Treat incoming candidates like GOLD. Respond to them within hours, same day where at all possible.

This is a huge point and something to work on. Act quickly and work out as many things in advance as you can. Don't be like unnamed company X who kept changing interview times and stretching it out so the candidate just took the offer from unnamed large company Y instead.

If you get some nibbles on your pipeline treat them quite fast, and note where they drop off. Likely for the process you have the salary is too low, and people skip out to find the same money easier or more money at the same difficulty.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#119

Post by gigatexal »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #15
gigatexal wrote: post #4

“Benefits and salary are good” is subjective. Can you provide examples so we can verify? What’s your hiring process like? What’s your company rep like? How are the interviews ram? Any steps taken to help interviewees feel comfortable? Etc etc

Unless the employer has a reputation of providing above average compensation, anytime at least a pay range and description of benefits is not provided, it is safe to assume they are not competitive (for above average people).

Which is why I am stoked Microsoft is going to disclose salary ranges for their roles.
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