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Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

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Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#111

Post by anamexis »

duxup wrote: post #69
anamexis wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't a very toxic corporate culture the perfect reason for them to be getting a union?

People can be toxic regardless if there is a union or not. Humanity is endlessly capable of finding ways to do anything (good and bad). Unions and employers negotiate what kind of decisions are made and how, but they're hardly inclusive of every last thing. Some of the worst employer's I've had were union shops. It's entirely possible to have the opposite experience too, but there's nothing about a union that prevent…

Unions might not prevent toxic personalities, but they certainly can protect against toxic managers.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#112

Post by bjornsing »

adam_arthur wrote: post #53

Definitely wouldn't want to be part of a union. I represent myself, thanks. Smaller and wide set of unions in an industry can be effective, but industry wide unions are effectively a monopoly on labor supply and bad for society. Look no further than the MTA in NYC. Terrible cost overruns and bad governance of the subway system, for what? So employees can clock extra hours and get egregiously overpaid? No thanks. Comp…

I think unions are great for unskilled labor: When the employer sees employees 100% as a collective, then it makes sense that employees bargain as a collective too.

But it goes off the rails when there’s a big difference in productivity between employees, and it gets even worse when managers are allowed to unionize and use strict labor laws to protect them while they play corporate politics.

Source: I’m Swedish and have seen it myself from most angles.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#113

Post by throwaway_95283 »

djbebs wrote: post #93
kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recently unionized workplace can get hostile to workers who opposed it. This is fine by me: if you opposed the majority of your coworkers in their struggle for better material working conditions, then you should feel their resentment.

Can we also make a hostile work environment to pro-union employees? Or is this another one of those hypocrite things?

Just move the office to a low tax country / state. Union people will refuse to move there.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#114

Post by adam_arthur »

jasonlotito wrote: post #101
adam_arthur wrote: post #53

Definitely wouldn't want to be part of a union. I represent myself, thanks. Smaller and wide set of unions in an industry can be effective, but industry wide unions are effectively a monopoly on labor supply and bad for society. Look no further than the MTA in NYC. Terrible cost overruns and bad governance of the subway system, for what? So employees can clock extra hours and get egregiously overpaid? No thanks. Comp…

> Competitive markets produce societally best outcomes Define "societally best outcomes". By using the word "societally", you are saying it's not he best outcome for the business, nor is it the best outcome for the employees, nor the best outcome for the customers, but the best outcome for the society at large. Your MTA example shows that a union is great for workers. Please explain. Considering unions are used succe…

MTA is great for MTA employees. The remaining 10 million or so New Yorkers pay the cost.

You can't assess these things in isolation.

If the Foxconn factory unionized, you can bet iPhones would cost hundreds of dollars more. Who bears that cost?

Consumers of iPhone/society at large (when extrapolating to other businesses)

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#115

Post by kieselguhr_kid »

djbebs wrote: post #93
kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recently unionized workplace can get hostile to workers who opposed it. This is fine by me: if you opposed the majority of your coworkers in their struggle for better material working conditions, then you should feel their resentment.

Can we also make a hostile work environment to pro-union employees? Or is this another one of those hypocrite things?

It already is hostile to pro-union workers, usually. This is part of the resentment that sets in. After months of surveillance and harassment, your pro-union coworkers will be pissed that you chose to side with the people who surveilled and harassed them.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#116

Post by throwaway_95283 »

lostcolony wrote: post #102
djbebs wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we also make a hostile work environment to pro-union employees? Or is this another one of those hypocrite things?

What...sort of environment do you think caused them to unionize?

One where people were expected spend more time working than being offended.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#118

Post by IE6 »

Xeoncross wrote: post #110

I don't understand unions for tech workers. We're not living in shacks rented to us by the company and can't afford a bus ticket to a new city or school to start a new life. We're making six figures here. Want more pay? Sit on your butt and do leetcode or practice interviews and network with other rich programmers. Move to a tropical island and work remote. Heck, you don't even need to go to college and just about an…

Tech is not a monolith and there are certainly people employed by Tech companies who are engaged in technology oriented jobs who will benefit from unionization.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#119

Post by busterarm »

kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #85
busterarm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a large chunk of the employees who didn't want to unionize (25-35% of their peak headcount) left the company over some of the tactics employed in the contested fight over unionizing the company.

A recently unionized workplace can get hostile to workers who opposed it. This is fine by me: if you opposed the majority of your coworkers in their struggle for better material working conditions, then you should feel their resentment.

Actually most people were union-supportive but thought it either wasn't the right time or would negatively impact the company in the long-run. Only a small minority (maybe 15%) of the company were activist and the rest were "union? okay cool!".

There were some really dirty tactics used by the activist camps (on both sides) and even some press written about such at the time. Things like demanding that management accept the union without an employee vote (back when their internal polling showed that only 30% would vote to unionize...). Negative articles in the press, etc.

The tactics employed and employee-vs-employee culture caused a number of folks I know to leave. Some even from the pro-union side.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#120

Post by icelancer »

kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #85
busterarm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a large chunk of the employees who didn't want to unionize (25-35% of their peak headcount) left the company over some of the tactics employed in the contested fight over unionizing the company.

A recently unionized workplace can get hostile to workers who opposed it. This is fine by me: if you opposed the majority of your coworkers in their struggle for better material working conditions, then you should feel their resentment.

It's not possible that people who were anti-union could think that working conditions would not improve with the addition of a union?
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