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2022 Cloud Report

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Re: 2022 Cloud Report

#111

Post by sharms »

vlovich123 wrote: post #110

Am I misreading the report or is GCP faster for network/disk, have more consistent performance (at least for network), & offer cheaper pricing? Aside from vendor lock-in (or potentially negotiated rates for large ENT accounts altering the economics), is there any reason to choose AWS/Azure instead of GCP?

Each cloud comes with unique service / API complexity and despite being managed services that experience does not translate 1:1 across clouds. For example AWS IAM policies cannot be reused, and there may be differences in availability, durability, feature set et al. A good reason to choose AWS may be to minimize deltas between stacks, and often it is a fair assumption that their service offerings have been used by a significant amount of enterprises.

Re: 2022 Cloud Report

#112

Post by hanble »

how2cflags wrote: post #36
hesdeadjim wrote: post #14

As a AMD fanboy who loves seeing them back on top, I’m just happy we have a competitive CPU market now. I’ll include the M-series from Apple as well, despite being platform locked, because it also forces the other players to up their game. I would love to see an AMD chip as fully integrated as an M1, moving the RAM fully on die and part of the Infinity fabric directly. The insane memory bandwidth of the M1 is what ke…

As someone who has recently bought into AMD from a long hiatus, I have to say they've come a long way since and I've been personally impressed with what I've experienced so far on the hardware side. That said, the reverse can be equally said on other matters pertaining to their business as well; more specifically their customer support pertaining to RMA's as of late. Mind you, this is all a personal anecdote so take…

Agreed, in it's heyday (before Intel dominated in PC era), AMD was my go-to for performance processors.

Re: 2022 Cloud Report

#114

Post by sieabahlpark »

vlovich123 wrote: post #110

Am I misreading the report or is GCP faster for network/disk, have more consistent performance (at least for network), & offer cheaper pricing? Aside from vendor lock-in (or potentially negotiated rates for large ENT accounts altering the economics), is there any reason to choose AWS/Azure instead of GCP?

No post body was provided.

Re: 2022 Cloud Report

#115

Post by theevilsharpie »

erik wrote: post #100
vitus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Consumer PCs don't match this bandwidth because DDR DIMMs generally aren't as fast as LPDDR. What about LPDDR (low-power DDR) allows it to be faster? And, by faster, do you mean lower latency? higher clock rates -> higher throughput? This is unintuitive to me. My impression is that lower power means that you can't sustain higher clocks as readily (in fact, when overclocking RAM, it's common to increase voltage in t…

> What about LPDDR (low-power DDR) allows it to be faster? And, by faster, do you mean lower latency? higher clock rates -> higher throughput? This is unintuitive to me. By faster I mean higher throughput at similar latency, achieved by higher clock rates. And it is indeed unintuitive as to how this can be done while using less power than standard DDR. My understanding is that it's down to two major factors: 1. JEDEC…

> So given that most laptops sold by companies like Dell and Lenovo use soldered ram anyway, and that Intel and AMD both support LPDDR, then why are PC laptops with faster RAM so rare? I have no idea, maybe it costs a bit more and the manufacturers don't think they can market it as a benefit?

For consumers, the primary application that benefits from higher RAM bandwidth is real-time graphics rendering, and non-Apple PCs optimize for this by using discrete GPUs with their own onboard high-bandwidth memory.

Re: 2022 Cloud Report

#116

Post by DeathArrow »

colinmhayes wrote: post #72
DeathArrow wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a AMD fanboy who loves seeing them back on top I am not a fanboy, but a realistic dude. AMD ruled the last years but Alder Lake overtook Vermeer on both performance and price/performance. And that is with a process node difference, Intel using 10nm vs AMD using 7nm. And the future looks like Intel will enhance the distance between its performance and AMD's.

Alder Lake and zen 3 are on comparable processes. Intel 10nm, now renamed Intel 7, has pretty much the same density as tsmc 7nm.

>Alder Lake and zen 3 are on comparable processes.

Intel didn't use EUV, so no.

Re: 2022 Cloud Report

#117

Post by infogulch »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #44
hesdeadjim wrote: post #14

As a AMD fanboy who loves seeing them back on top, I’m just happy we have a competitive CPU market now. I’ll include the M-series from Apple as well, despite being platform locked, because it also forces the other players to up their game. I would love to see an AMD chip as fully integrated as an M1, moving the RAM fully on die and part of the Infinity fabric directly. The insane memory bandwidth of the M1 is what ke…

I would love to see an AMD chip as fully integrated as an M1, moving the RAM fully on die and part of the Infinity fabric directly. The insane memory bandwidth of the M1 is what keeps it competitive. I know this has been said a million times, but it's worth repeating because somehow the idea is still floating around – the M series very much does not have the RAM on-die. It's not even in the same package – it's standa…

So the novel ("novel") idea that M1 is bringing is using high bandwidth LPDDR5 for desktop CPU memory, where it's currently typically used only for mobile CPUs. [1] Intel and AMD CPUs technically support LPDDRx, but no manufacturer exploits this for some reason. [2]

[1]: https://www.bgr.in/top-products/best-phones-with-lpddr5-ram-...

[2]: See other thread. :)

Re: 2022 Cloud Report

#118

Post by suggala »

Benchmark was executed only for CPU intensive node configurations. For highmem node configurations, AMD is not performing well. Probably need to title the report as Cloud Report for CPU intensive workloads. For memory intensive workloads, this report is not doing enough justice.

Re: 2022 Cloud Report

#119

Post by vlovich123 »

sharms wrote: post #111
vlovich123 wrote: post #110

Am I misreading the report or is GCP faster for network/disk, have more consistent performance (at least for network), & offer cheaper pricing? Aside from vendor lock-in (or potentially negotiated rates for large ENT accounts altering the economics), is there any reason to choose AWS/Azure instead of GCP?

Each cloud comes with unique service / API complexity and despite being managed services that experience does not translate 1:1 across clouds. For example AWS IAM policies cannot be reused, and there may be differences in availability, durability, feature set et al. A good reason to choose AWS may be to minimize deltas between stacks, and often it is a fair assumption that their service offerings have been used by a…

> it is a fair assumption that their service offerings have been used by a significant amount of enterprises.

AWS revenue is 62B. Azure Cloud revenue is 23B. GCS revenue is 22B. I'd say that at 42% of the market, other cloud provider service offerings cumulatively are used by a significant amount of enterprises as well. These revenue numbers are probably artificially deflated due to the land war going on between these business units (i.e. Azure/GCS have to offer larger discounts to steal business from AWS) so it's hard to actually compare without deeper analytics access into these providers. Regardless, even individually these are massive revenue numbers indicating there's plenty of deployments on each of the clouds. Also, the "nobody got fired for IBM" reasoning is pretty flawed in tech; it's kind of ridiculous how often this argument is made.

Just to preface this next bit. I'm not asking about scenarios like "I run all parts of my business on AWS" which could change the benefits towards AWS (vendors love lockin because it raises prices). I'm asking mainly about a greenfield project that is selecting between the clouds equally.

> Each cloud comes with unique service / API complexity and despite being managed services that experience does not translate 1:1 across clouds

AFAIK the vast majority of all of this has been thoroughly commoditized. Do you have anything specific that you see as an important product/feature that Amazon has that the other's don't?

> AWS IAM policies cannot be reused

Not relevant for new deployments & AWS IAM policies are famously overly complex resulting in security vulnerabilities due to misconfiguration, but sure. IAM policies are unique to each cloud provider.

> and there may be differences in availability, durability, feature set et al

Experientially it seems like Google has an advantage there - AWS seems to have more frequent and longer-lasting outages. I doubt durability has a major difference & feature sets tend to be fairly even between them (might matter for the long tail). Also, that statement feels kind of empty as all it says is that there "may be" differences without stating any or which provider might come out ahead.

Re: 2022 Cloud Report

#120

Post by jeffbee »

theevilsharpie wrote: post #115
erik wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What about LPDDR (low-power DDR) allows it to be faster? And, by faster, do you mean lower latency? higher clock rates -> higher throughput? This is unintuitive to me. By faster I mean higher throughput at similar latency, achieved by higher clock rates. And it is indeed unintuitive as to how this can be done while using less power than standard DDR. My understanding is that it's down to two major factors: 1. JEDEC…

> So given that most laptops sold by companies like Dell and Lenovo use soldered ram anyway, and that Intel and AMD both support LPDDR, then why are PC laptops with faster RAM so rare? I have no idea, maybe it costs a bit more and the manufacturers don't think they can market it as a benefit? For consumers, the primary application that benefits from higher RAM bandwidth is real-time graphics rendering, and non-Apple…

I wouldn't take the statement at face value. Most laptops base on 11th-gen Core and later Intel CPUs use LPDDR4x, just like the M1. It's not rare at all. It is the reference design from Intel.
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